5150 Wood Revisited
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:14 pm
Hello all,
I'm new to the forum and have thoroughly enjoyed reading the many posts about Ed's magical 5150 (of which, I admit, I'm obsessed). Suffice it to say, I have learned a lot.
That said, I'd like to once again solicit the opinions of any fellow Eddie nuts out there as to what wood the 5150 was made from. Perhaps someone has some new information to contribute -- or, better yet, new pictures that have yet to make the rounds.
The leading wood candidates, in order of popularity, seem to be 1) basswood 2) swamp ash and 3) poplar. It seems most people who have weighed in on the subject have ruled out poplar. The majority view seems to be that the 5150 is basswood; the minority view argues that it is swamp ash (full disclosure: I throw in with the swamp ash crowd).
If I understand the arguments correctly, they are summarized as follows:
Basswood:
1) Ed's choosing basswood for the 5150 would be consistent with his selection of basswood for each succeeding signature guitar he has released (i.e., EBMM, Peavey Wolfgang and EVH Wolfgang).
2)The wear and tear on the 5150, as evidenced by the No Bozos pictures, is consistent with what one would expect of a basswood guitar (particularly the crack from the Floyd post to the PUP cavity and the multiple strap lock holes on the bottom of the guitar).
3)The grain pattern in the No Bozos pictures that is strongly indicative of swamp ash can be explained away by the fact that certain cuts of basswood exhibit a similar grain pattern.
4) The wood that is visible on the back of the guitar seems to have the subtle greenish tint that is the hallmark of basswood.
5)Several highly respected individuals who are apparently somehow connected to Van Halen claim to have held the actual 5150 and have reported that, in their opinion, the guitar is unmistakably basswood.
6)A few confirmed Van Halen insiders, including Zeke Clark (Eddie's guitar tech from the '80s) have supposedly verified that the 5150 is, in fact, a basswood guitar.
Swamp Ash:
1) Ed's choosing of swamp ash for the 5150 would be consistent with his selection of ash (swamp or northern) for the Frankie. Furthermore, each successive signature basswood guitar that Eddie has released post-5150 has been maple topped -- assuming the 5150 is NOT basswood, he has never regularly used a basswood guitar without a maple top.
2) Is the wear and tear really what one would expect of a basswood guitar? Without question, the 5150 is beat up -- but it just doesn't look quite as bad as one would think given its roughly six to seven years of tour abuse ('84--'91). Basswood, after all, is notoriously fragile -- especially in an unvarnished form (such as the 5150). Absent the protection provided by a lacquer-like finish (such as is applied to the EBMM, Peavey Wolfgang, and EVH Wolfgang), basswood can literally be dented by one's finger. Clearly, the 5150 was never babied (the headstock cracked, after all). Given this, wouldn't we expect the body of the guitar to have utterly catastrophic damage and perhaps even large "chips/gauges" in it were it truly made of basswood?
3) Has anyone actually offered photographic proof that a basswood grain pattern can resemble that of ash?
4)That visible wood on the back of the guitar also seems to show an ash-like grain pattern -- perhaps the subtle greenish hue stems from nothing more than poor lighting in the room where the picture was snapped.
5) This is nothing more than hearsay. Someone claims someone else said such and such . . .
6) Ditto 5 above.
I find the swamp ash arguments more persuasive -- primarily because I just can't accept that basswood would exhibit the grain pattern that we clearly see in the No Bozos pictures.
But I also think the 5150 just sounds more like a swamp ash guitar than a basswood guitar.
Below are a few links I'd like to toss out for everyone's comments. Now, granted, amp types and settings, PUP types, effects used and player pick attack all play an enormous factor in how a guitar will sound. But that said, the 5150 just seems to have a certain crunchy "pop" or "bite" to it that sounds an awful lot like the swamp ash clip. Please understand, I'm not talking about the overall tone of the guitar, which, again, can be enormously affected by the type of amp one plays through, the pick-ups he uses, etc. I'm only referencing that "bite" one hears coming from the strings -- it's almost as if the notes "pop" out at you.
The first clip is of Eddie himself at the opening of the Cabo Wabo cantina circa 1990-1991:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgY2rt_e84E" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here's a clip reviewing a PRS swamp ash guitar w/ a maple neck (which, if my theory is correct, is the same wood combo of the 5150 itself) -- really focus in on how the notes just "pop" out at you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2k0r3dP87A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Finally, as a point of comparison, here's a review of the high-end Satriani signature Ibanez, which is an all basswood guitar. To my ears, I just don't hear that crunchy "pop" that I hear in the first two clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2axm2BqkpY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Anyhow, thanks for reading and, agree or disagree, please let me know what you guys think!
Mike
I'm new to the forum and have thoroughly enjoyed reading the many posts about Ed's magical 5150 (of which, I admit, I'm obsessed). Suffice it to say, I have learned a lot.
That said, I'd like to once again solicit the opinions of any fellow Eddie nuts out there as to what wood the 5150 was made from. Perhaps someone has some new information to contribute -- or, better yet, new pictures that have yet to make the rounds.
The leading wood candidates, in order of popularity, seem to be 1) basswood 2) swamp ash and 3) poplar. It seems most people who have weighed in on the subject have ruled out poplar. The majority view seems to be that the 5150 is basswood; the minority view argues that it is swamp ash (full disclosure: I throw in with the swamp ash crowd).
If I understand the arguments correctly, they are summarized as follows:
Basswood:
1) Ed's choosing basswood for the 5150 would be consistent with his selection of basswood for each succeeding signature guitar he has released (i.e., EBMM, Peavey Wolfgang and EVH Wolfgang).
2)The wear and tear on the 5150, as evidenced by the No Bozos pictures, is consistent with what one would expect of a basswood guitar (particularly the crack from the Floyd post to the PUP cavity and the multiple strap lock holes on the bottom of the guitar).
3)The grain pattern in the No Bozos pictures that is strongly indicative of swamp ash can be explained away by the fact that certain cuts of basswood exhibit a similar grain pattern.
4) The wood that is visible on the back of the guitar seems to have the subtle greenish tint that is the hallmark of basswood.
5)Several highly respected individuals who are apparently somehow connected to Van Halen claim to have held the actual 5150 and have reported that, in their opinion, the guitar is unmistakably basswood.
6)A few confirmed Van Halen insiders, including Zeke Clark (Eddie's guitar tech from the '80s) have supposedly verified that the 5150 is, in fact, a basswood guitar.
Swamp Ash:
1) Ed's choosing of swamp ash for the 5150 would be consistent with his selection of ash (swamp or northern) for the Frankie. Furthermore, each successive signature basswood guitar that Eddie has released post-5150 has been maple topped -- assuming the 5150 is NOT basswood, he has never regularly used a basswood guitar without a maple top.
2) Is the wear and tear really what one would expect of a basswood guitar? Without question, the 5150 is beat up -- but it just doesn't look quite as bad as one would think given its roughly six to seven years of tour abuse ('84--'91). Basswood, after all, is notoriously fragile -- especially in an unvarnished form (such as the 5150). Absent the protection provided by a lacquer-like finish (such as is applied to the EBMM, Peavey Wolfgang, and EVH Wolfgang), basswood can literally be dented by one's finger. Clearly, the 5150 was never babied (the headstock cracked, after all). Given this, wouldn't we expect the body of the guitar to have utterly catastrophic damage and perhaps even large "chips/gauges" in it were it truly made of basswood?
3) Has anyone actually offered photographic proof that a basswood grain pattern can resemble that of ash?
4)That visible wood on the back of the guitar also seems to show an ash-like grain pattern -- perhaps the subtle greenish hue stems from nothing more than poor lighting in the room where the picture was snapped.
5) This is nothing more than hearsay. Someone claims someone else said such and such . . .
6) Ditto 5 above.
I find the swamp ash arguments more persuasive -- primarily because I just can't accept that basswood would exhibit the grain pattern that we clearly see in the No Bozos pictures.
But I also think the 5150 just sounds more like a swamp ash guitar than a basswood guitar.
Below are a few links I'd like to toss out for everyone's comments. Now, granted, amp types and settings, PUP types, effects used and player pick attack all play an enormous factor in how a guitar will sound. But that said, the 5150 just seems to have a certain crunchy "pop" or "bite" to it that sounds an awful lot like the swamp ash clip. Please understand, I'm not talking about the overall tone of the guitar, which, again, can be enormously affected by the type of amp one plays through, the pick-ups he uses, etc. I'm only referencing that "bite" one hears coming from the strings -- it's almost as if the notes "pop" out at you.
The first clip is of Eddie himself at the opening of the Cabo Wabo cantina circa 1990-1991:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgY2rt_e84E" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here's a clip reviewing a PRS swamp ash guitar w/ a maple neck (which, if my theory is correct, is the same wood combo of the 5150 itself) -- really focus in on how the notes just "pop" out at you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2k0r3dP87A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Finally, as a point of comparison, here's a review of the high-end Satriani signature Ibanez, which is an all basswood guitar. To my ears, I just don't hear that crunchy "pop" that I hear in the first two clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2axm2BqkpY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Anyhow, thanks for reading and, agree or disagree, please let me know what you guys think!
Mike