My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

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garbeaj
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My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:45 pm

Here are some pics of my Musikraft 5150 guitar (basswood body and maple neck with Tru-Oil finish-almost no finish) that I have mentioned a few times in other posts. I've just now got it back from being assembled and though there are a few tweaks left to do (adding the superfluous Fender string tree and addressing some fret buzz that my tech overlooked) this is my dream Kramer that I have wanted all my life. This is another of my "What if they made an actual production model based on the actual guitar that Eddie used?" or insert whatever guitar player in there...

You'll see that the cavity cover is not 100% accurate, but it is close enough for me. As I said in another thread concerning Musikraft's Kramer bodies, the Musikraft is mostly right and the KNE has other parts more correct. But overall I like the Musikraft...

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Last edited by garbeaj on Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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garbeaj
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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:47 pm

Kramer small neck plate...no serial number as was common on early Ed era Kramers though we all know Ed's 5150 guitar had a "B-series" neckplate...I also used a Switchcraft barrell jack, but i didn't take a pic of it. Too boring:)
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Last edited by garbeaj on Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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garbeaj
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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:53 pm

I used an original circa 1984-1985 era Floyd Rose tremolo that I've had for a long time, but I upgraded it with new washers on the tremolo arm (the originals bit the dust long ago) and I used Adam Reiver's titanium string block inserts.

The pickup is a Seymour Duncan trembucker (or F-spaced) "Custom Hybrid" pickup...it uses one coil from a "Custom" and one from an SD '59. I have yet to play it through my amps, but my tech is overwhelmed at how great it sounds. I'll have to get the rattles and buzzes sorted out before I plug it into my Rockstah Marshall and then I'll make a clip and let you be the judge. I only know that the Custom and Custom Custom, the JB and the '59 sound like crap to me. These are the pickups that virtually everyone uses in their 5150 replica builds and they all sound like crap (IMHO) and nothing like Ed's 5150 pickup. On paper, this "Custom Hybrid" should be the "Best of Both Worlds" (pardon the pun!) but that remains to be seen...
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Last edited by garbeaj on Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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garbeaj
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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:55 pm

I also upgraded my block and tremolo claw...I used the Adam/Floyd Upgrades Titanium big block and his bell brass tremolo claw...
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Last edited by garbeaj on Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:04 pm

I used original Gotoh 90 degree tuners that I got from eBay...same as on Ed's 5150. The Fender string tree is missing, but that will be added shortly. I'll place it using the behind the nut pinging heard on "Feels So Good" and the solo from "Live: Without A Net" as a guide for the pitch and subsequent placement of the tree. I've never heard of anyone else doing this, so I thought I would try and get it as close as humanly possible.

I also added a black Floyd tool set on the back of the headstock for convenience sake...You'll notice that one of my 90 degree Gotoh tuners was installed crooked... yet another thing I'll be having my tech fix later.

You'll notice that I had the painter do a "V" style mask as the headstock meets the neck. This is NOT how Ed masked the 5150, but it is how the "Hot For Teacher" and other early back-up Kramers were masked. I like the more finished "production model" look of this masking. Again, this goes back to my whole "Kramer should have made the guitar like this" philosophy.
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Last edited by garbeaj on Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

dazzlindino
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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by dazzlindino » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:13 am

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Last edited by dazzlindino on Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
I want my music waking up the dead...
Dont tell me to turn it down

if its not loud enough you must be really old...huh,what,what did you play?

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Tone Slinger
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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by Tone Slinger » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:19 am

Sweet guitar :thumbsup:

As far as a Custom Custom or a Custom or a '59 goes,any of those pu's, imo, could match well with a Kramer 5150 style guitar,it all comes down to who's playing it. On a basswood guitar I think you made a great pu choice, but not so much if it were Ash(that is on average). I've been listening again to alot of Ed's Kramer 5150 guitar era, and think that he might have changed pu's in it after the 1984 tour. I hear a weaker pu on the 1984 tour (possibly a stock'59 ?) and by the Farm Aid,Letterman, Namn stuff of 1985,I hear a more saturated,mid range thing (JB?). I hear that sound up to the end of Ed's use of the 5150, though his live amp set up became WAY to busy and he lost alot of the NATURAL tone quality he had on the 1984 tour and the afforementioned 1985 gigs. Of course this is all conjecture on my part. I like how Ed sounded almost just like the Studio 'Hot For Teacher' at the 1984 Gig in England (Monsters Of Rock ? or Donnington ? I believe) on his 5150. With the exception of the clean parts , he nailed that tone. I know he used his '58 V on the studio version, but this vid really shows the importance of Ed's amp.
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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by fhn_lopes » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:35 pm

I've read once that the 5150 kramer pickup was a Gibson 1984T, made specially for that guitar, by the time that Kramer was owned (or fabricated?) by Gibson.

That neck looks very sexy!! I don't dig the kramer body cut though, but the finish looks very good too, congrats!
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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:44 pm

The conventional wisdom is that Ed used a "modified Seymour Duncan '59". I think it was the same pickup all along...it had white tape around the bobbins rather than the conventional black. I think the 1984/Donnington tones (same as the Montreal '84 sounds, though that show is of much poorer audio quality than Donnington) reflect the amps he was using on tour and the whole rack and power amp set up. I think the meaty tone of the 5150 that we hear at Farm Aid, Saturday Night Live, both Letterman appearances, and the Les Paul tribute show were probably the "baby" Marshall-certainly the Letterman and Farm Aid sounds were Ed's favorite Marshall. I'm going after those tones as best as I can with my Rockstah Marshall and if I happen to get in the ballpark of the Live Without A Net tones with a Harmonizer, I'll consider it a bonus. The real, straight-from-guitar-into-amp sounds of Letterman and Farm Aid are really what I'm searching for, but I'll see what I come up with...

I need to sort out the fret buzz and some of the other touch ups before I make a clip, but I'll post as soon as those issues are resolved.
Last edited by garbeaj on Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by fhn_lopes » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:01 pm

I hear 1984 tones are a bit thinner than early VHI/VHII albuns, and a bit more tight maybe...

More saturated, but not so muscular.... strange, that can be the pup, the guitar, the amp or all of them... I think that for those tones you need to look to something different than VHI gear (DSD, VHII, MCP 2nd BB, etc..)... those pups have more muscle and low mids, I think you need to look after something punchier in the high mids with less low mid growl and more crisp... I hear a lot of 1984 could come from a JCM800 BC that's more or less the difference against the plexi circuit, but we know he didn't used cascade, so... the search is on, tell us the results :popcorn:
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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:45 pm

Well I go back to what I've said many times regarding the "1984" sounds...there isn't a 1984 sound coming from a Kramer guitar on the album-the 5150 and the "Hot For Teacher" Kramer (used on tour and in the "Hot For Teacher" video) were built AFTER the recording of the album and were first used on the 1984 tour. The Frankenstein with the Kramer beak neck was the main guitar on the Floyd tracks and the Flying V and the prototype Ripley were the others. So for the 5150 guitar tones that I am attempting to approach with this build, you can only really try for the live 1984 tour sounds like Montreal '84 and the '84 Donnington clip of "Hot For Teacher" from the 1984 tour era that Tone Slinger mentioned and those sounds are largely the result of the amps racks and PA sounds in a huge arena. The rest of the representations of the sounds from the 5150 guitar come from 1985 and forward.

I confine my search to the Farm Aid and Letterman appearances because they feature a relatively unadorned representation of the 5150 guitar into an amp (again, likely Ed's baby Marshall) minus Harmonizer, chorus or echo and that is where I'm headed, hopefully!
Last edited by garbeaj on Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:52 pm

dazzlindino wrote:Looks sweet...did your tech do the painting?
do you have any other basswood guitars?
anyhoo....sound clips or it didnt happen.....HaHa.... :drummer:
I have some guys that specialize in building and custom painting guitars that I have doing my paint projects. My tech just sets up my guitars and does intonation, wiring, fret jobs, etc. -all the detail work of getting the guitars in the best possible shape intonation-wise and with any non-paint related stuff-though he does touch up work and finish work on my acoustics.

This is my first basswood guitar...but I kind've stacked the deck with the titanium big block and inserts...if the guitar sounds nice and resonant it could be just the parts and not the wood!

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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by Tone Slinger » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:40 am

Very cool guitar indeed ! In all honesty, the Biggest thing I have against Basswood isnt the tone, but the 'softness' of it. I have seen SO many Basswood Charvels from the late '80's-early'90's era that have the tremelo posts worn and loose. I'm sure that many of those were due to the set up used on them by the owners,like Heavy strings tuned to standard etc. A guitar with 9-40 guage strings, tuned down a half step, etc, should be fine, especially since the basswood that Musikraft use is of much higher quality than what the '80's to early '90's "Make as much profit as we can" companies were using.
I think Garbeaj may be correct about Ed's Kramer 5150 '84-'85 tones. His tone was great imo on that tour (1984) but even BETTER on that 1985 stuff. A slightly better amp ran more pure (his12xxx) will have that affect :D .

The pick up that fhn lopes described is pretty much what the hybrid '59/Custom is, which would fit the 1984/85 live tones well.
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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:28 pm

I know what Tone Slinger is referring to about the "softness", but I have to say that when I received the basswood body from Musikraft it seems "harder" than my swamp ash guitars. You can put a nice dent in a swamp ash guitar with your fingernail no problem, but the basswood seemed more solid. Of course my painter sprayed the black and applied several coats of nitro to the headstock and body, so I feel pretty good about the wearability of the finish, but as far as the solidity of the posts, I'll just have to see how it stands up to the test of time.

The 5150 guitar was tuned to a sweetened A=440 tuning during '85 through the end of it's use, so I won't be tuning this guitar down 1/2 step as I might on a normal Floyd equipped Frankenstein, but I am using Eddie's basic EVH Fender strings (the regular .009 version). When I was using my plywood Kramer Striker I did have problems with the posts getting notches into them and not staying in tune...I was using .010s and tuning to standard pitch. The post holes needed to be filled and redrilled on that Striker as well, but it was an old guitar that I played alot...who knows how this Musikraft "Kramer" will fare, but as I said, time will tell...

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Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by dazzlindino » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:41 pm

.
Last edited by dazzlindino on Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
I want my music waking up the dead...
Dont tell me to turn it down

if its not loud enough you must be really old...huh,what,what did you play?

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