My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

The man, the band, and everything else

Moderators: VelvetGeorge, RACKSYSTEMS

User avatar
garbeaj
Senior Member
Posts: 3020
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:58 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Houston, TX

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:49 pm

dazzlindino wrote: all I know is it takes a high output pickup to make a floyd/basswood guitar come alive....
again...without clips it didnt happen...HaHa.... :popcorn:
Well the SD Custom Hybrid pickup that I put in this guitar (screwed straight into the body Ed style by the way) is half high output Custom and half low output SD '59. The '59 was just not working well enough for me and the Custom, Custom Custom and JB high output pickups sounded like cheesy hair band crap (like almost all the other 5150 and Frankenstein builds that I have heard clips of online). Here's hoping it works the way I want it to...but I'm not even going to attempt to plug it in until the guitar is set up correctly. For me, the guitar has to happen unplugged or it doesn't happen at all.

I will make no clips until I get the buzzes sorted out...Unless you want me to play the solo from Steely Dan's "Do It Again" because right now the A string sounds like a goddamned sitar!

dazzlindino
Senior Member
Posts: 778
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:43 pm
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: Austin , Texas

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by dazzlindino » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:14 pm

.
Last edited by dazzlindino on Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
I want my music waking up the dead...
Dont tell me to turn it down

if its not loud enough you must be really old...huh,what,what did you play?

User avatar
garbeaj
Senior Member
Posts: 3020
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:58 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Houston, TX

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:30 pm

Well I actually plugged the fucking guitar into my Rockstah Marshall and the Custom Hybrid isn't doing it so far. I also tried the Bourns EVH 500k pot and I don't like it...don't know whether it is the pot or the pickup, but when I turn down it is like a tone knob has been turned down and the highs disappear into a muffled mess.

Maybe I need to do some more experimenting, but so far it is a bust. The Dimarzio Super Distortion in my Clapton VH-1 strat (and soon my new '78 Frankenstein build) and in my Destroyer sounds fucking great in this circuit and I really like my Flying V with the '57 Classics into my Rockstah Marshall, but this Custom Hybrid is not giving me enough artificial harmonic content. It is a real struggle to get the old VH "horse" effect out of this, even with my pre-amp and master volume all the way up. But then I have been leaving the amp with the settings that Mark recommended which sound great for VH-1, but it just ain't working with this guitar and pickup/pot combo...:(

mkramer5150
New Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:57 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by mkramer5150 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:18 pm

Hey Garbeaj,

Beautiful guitar; too bad you weren't a Kramer exec back in the day -- I bet they would have sold quite a few of those!

I'm still waiting on my 5150 body/neck from Musikraft. It's been 1 1/2 months now and, I confess, I'm starting to get restless. How long did you have to wait for yours? Their website suggests a 4-6 week lead time, but it was last updated back in April/May. I'm now right at 6 weeks, so perhaps my new toy will be arriving soon.

How do you find the playability on the upper frets? Is it comparable to an American standard strat (which I find very playable on the higher registers)?

If you have a few minutes, would you mind posting some close up pics of the neck joint? Specifically, I'd love to see how deep in the pocket the neck sits -- I think (but have never been able to confirm) that the real 5150 sits pretty low such that the top dots are just a mm or two above the body.

Cheers!

Mike

P.S. I ordered (and have received!) an EVH Frankie PUP for my guitar. I've never heard that PUP in person, so I have no idea how it will turn out. I was going back and forth between the Duncan '78 and the EVH. I went with the EVH because, based on my research, it seems the Duncan '78 has mixed reviews whereas the EVH seemed to receive almost uniformly positive reviews. I'll let you know how it turns out when I finally get the thing painted and assembled.

dazzlindino
Senior Member
Posts: 778
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:43 pm
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: Austin , Texas

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by dazzlindino » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:14 pm

.
Last edited by dazzlindino on Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
I want my music waking up the dead...
Dont tell me to turn it down

if its not loud enough you must be really old...huh,what,what did you play?

fhn_lopes
Senior Member
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:16 pm
Just the numbers in order: 7

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by fhn_lopes » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:11 pm

Guys, don't get fooled with the dc resistance... It has nothing to do to output, it's ralated to the size of the coil and which wire is used... My former Emerald has 12k impedance and has less push to the amp than my VHII that reads 8.2k....

Output is correclty measured in milivolts, but to compare a different brand with another, you should use the same method, the same gear and etc, ... only Dimarzio publishes the milivotls... it's nice to compare between other dimarzios, but worthless for anything else.

I keep saying this, and I'll say it again. Try a Bare Knuckle.... if you're missing clarity, harmonics and definition, that's what EVERY SINGLE BK has in spades. FOr a basswood body, I'd go with a VHII (of course) or even a Crawler if your guitar is on the bright side... Stay away from the riff raff and the emerald bc they are very bright, even in les pauls. Maybe a motor city 2nd DBB would be a nice one too.... I'd stay away from ceramic mags though....

I don't think a high output pickup is the solution for his guitar, just a pickup with the right frequencies pushed up... I played a Black Dog equiped les paul classic that had TONS of VH tone to it played through a voodoo amps JTM45 with jose mod (cascaded and etc, probably close to your rockstah).. you have plenty of gain in the amp, choose the pup by it's tone, not output.
76' JMP 50w w/ 71' metro board
93' Fernandes SSS strat
93' Fender Japan HSS Strat
4x12 w/ 2x 25w rola creambacks /2x 25w m75 Scumbacks

dazzlindino
Senior Member
Posts: 778
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:43 pm
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: Austin , Texas

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by dazzlindino » Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:06 pm

.
Last edited by dazzlindino on Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
I want my music waking up the dead...
Dont tell me to turn it down

if its not loud enough you must be really old...huh,what,what did you play?

User avatar
YMI5150?
Senior Member
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:38 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Contact:

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by YMI5150? » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:27 pm

fhn_lopes wrote:.... I'd stay away from ceramic mags though.....
you had me up to here.

User avatar
garbeaj
Senior Member
Posts: 3020
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:58 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Houston, TX

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:45 pm

Yeah truthfully for the first album tones using a Mod 5, the Dimarzio Super Distortion is the way to go (that's what Rockstah used) and it may be that ceramics work best with the Mod 5. This thread is really specific to my Mod 5 Marshall and my Kramer guitar. I'm not ruling anything out at this point. I'm also aware that I'm chasing specific tones that no one has, to my knowledge, attempted to capture-the Farm Aid, Letterman, SNL sounds and maybe with added Harmonizer approaching the Live Without A Net sounds...
Last edited by garbeaj on Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
vanhalen5150
Senior Member
Posts: 7307
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:13 pm
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: Halifax, Canada

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by vanhalen5150 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:45 am

Any of you guys waiting on necks from Musikraft or KNE. Usually the wait time is also dependent on glue and applied finish. I don't know about Musikraft, but KNE Mitch told me his wait time is more based on those 2 factors. He can usually get a body out in about less than 2 weeks. A maple cap neck has to let the glue dry and then adjust the rod to stabilize correctly. It takes a few weeks and then there is finish if you asked for it. I wouldn't want a neck that's still curing finish and still has wet glue inside as I string it up. Also if you get a neck body combo, I assume they want to make sure they fit together correctly when shipped.

I'm tempted to get a Musikraft combo. I always go KNE but would like to compare.

I also "need" one of George's amp head switcher dobadads.
12000 Metro Kit

User avatar
Tone Slinger
Senior Member
Posts: 6520
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:31 am

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by Tone Slinger » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:46 pm

I'd love to swing a neck/body combo, but am in love with my two Warmoth necks ( a vintage/modern AND a pro construction).I dont really dig Warmoths body choices though,so I'm sticking with KnE as far as bodies go.Gonna order a new one next week :D .

I think Fernando is telling it like it is.I'm guilty of totally judging a pu by its dc resistance. The Bare Knuckle VH11 and the Motor City second degree Blackbelt are both under 9k, yet in clips, they have more kick and punch than you would expect from that rating. I also agree about matching the right pu,considering even the models you normally wouldnt (like in Garbeaj's case,considering a JB or a Custom Custom)cause you never know until you try.I myself am gonna get another JB.Havent used one since my old Barretta got stolen out of the drummers car. All of my main guitars sound great through my 12xxx and old JCM 800 4/12 w/6402 coned green backs set up, regardless of the pu, though you do notice the strength and weaknesses of each.

I think Allens goal of getting real close to Ed's '85 Letterman, Namn, Farm-aid,etc tones are VERY much in his grasp.Imo, the Mod5 spec already has an inherent tonal quality similar to Ed's afforementioned tones. Ed's 1977 tone and those '85 tones are my overall favorite tones he has ever gotten. Both had more sizzle than compared to other eras imo.
Rip Ben Wise (StuntDouble) & Mark Abrahamian (Rockstah)

User avatar
garbeaj
Senior Member
Posts: 3020
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:58 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Houston, TX

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:18 pm

Well I need a fret level...if you get a neck from Musikraft you may need a fret level...I've heard of others having the same problem. My tech didn't have time to do the fret level yet, but he adjusted the truss rod a little and I can play it a little now. Still alot of buzz on the A string and I need to bring it back for a proper fret level, but at least I can sort've half-ass play it a little.

I'm liking the sound a little better...just getting used to playing a Floyd after not touching one since the late 90s. Still have the problem with the sound when I turn down the volume knob on the guitar and all the highs are gone. Sounds like I'm turning a tone knob down at the same time as the volume...fucking terrible sound. I don't know if it is because of this Bourns/EVH pot or what?!

User avatar
garbeaj
Senior Member
Posts: 3020
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:58 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Houston, TX

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:15 pm

vanhalen5150 wrote:Any of you guys waiting on necks from Musikraft or KNE. Usually the wait time is also dependent on glue and applied finish. I don't know about Musikraft, but KNE Mitch told me his wait time is more based on those 2 factors. He can usually get a body out in about less than 2 weeks. A maple cap neck has to let the glue dry and then adjust the rod to stabilize correctly. It takes a few weeks and then there is finish if you asked for it. I wouldn't want a neck that's still curing finish and still has wet glue inside as I string it up. Also if you get a neck body combo, I assume they want to make sure they fit together correctly when shipped.
According to Scott Smith, the only thing that is delaying Musikraft orders is the fact that they are very backlogged...they have a ton of orders to complete. I've been waiting for a little over three months for them to "catch up" on their orders so that they will finally make their '78 headstock profile Frankie neck available. Scott says to check back in a month and that has happened three times now. Meanwhile, I have a '78 Frankenstein body that is almost finished being painted and no neck to go on the guitar and I'm getting restless.

As far as the necks fitting into the neck pockets on Musikraft matching bodies and necks...super tight, like a glove, can't fit a cunt hair in there, solid fit. It is so tight that you better not get any paint or finish in that pocket or on the heel...you may have to sand it a bit to get it to fit. Just be sure to keep the heel and neck pocket completely masked and free of debris because it is 100% on the money fit wise from the factory, at least in my experience.
Last edited by garbeaj on Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
garbeaj
Senior Member
Posts: 3020
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:58 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Houston, TX

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:22 pm

mkramer5150 wrote:Hey Garbeaj,

Beautiful guitar; too bad you weren't a Kramer exec back in the day -- I bet they would have sold quite a few of those!

I'm still waiting on my 5150 body/neck from Musikraft. It's been 1 1/2 months now and, I confess, I'm starting to get restless. How long did you have to wait for yours? Their website suggests a 4-6 week lead time, but it was last updated back in April/May. I'm now right at 6 weeks, so perhaps my new toy will be arriving soon.

How do you find the playability on the upper frets? Is it comparable to an American standard strat (which I find very playable on the higher registers)?

If you have a few minutes, would you mind posting some close up pics of the neck joint? Specifically, I'd love to see how deep in the pocket the neck sits -- I think (but have never been able to confirm) that the real 5150 sits pretty low such that the top dots are just a mm or two above the body.

Cheers!

Mike

P.S. I ordered (and have received!) an EVH Frankie PUP for my guitar. I've never heard that PUP in person, so I have no idea how it will turn out. I was going back and forth between the Duncan '78 and the EVH. I went with the EVH because, based on my research, it seems the Duncan '78 has mixed reviews whereas the EVH seemed to receive almost uniformly positive reviews. I'll let you know how it turns out when I finally get the thing painted and assembled.
As I said they are really backed up, but my recollection is that it took maybe 8 weeks for my body to come in. I bought all the parts for the guitar in pieces as I found them on eBay. I got the neck like 3 years ago and the body about a year ago. Then I waited a few months to get my painter to paint the neck and body, then I waited about 8 months for my tech to assemble it and of course even now I am still waiting for him to tweak it and fix the things he messed up on in the original assembly process.

I won't be posting any pics of the neck pocket since I am trying to get the guitar to settle in and I'm waiting on my tech to do the fret level and tweak any other intonation issues...just be aware that the neck and body will likely fit PERFECTLY. No shimming of any kind required.

As far as pickups go, it is completely dependent on the type of amp that you are using. Also, I would suggest to pick a specific tone that you are going for. I am going for the ACTUAL tone of the 5150 guitar. The examples I've cited (Letterman, Farm Aid, SNL and to a lesser degree the Harmonized tones of Live Without A Net) are pretty specific representations of THE tone of the 5150 guitar in a live setting-in other words, the best representation of the ACTUAL tone of the 5150 guitar.

If you are trying to get tones from the 1984 album out of your 5150 replica, you are really on a fool's errand...the original Frankenstein with the Kramer beak neck was the main guitar used on the 1984 album and the 5150 was only made after the recording of the album and used first on the 1984 tour. Similarly, I wouldn't try to make a 5150 guitar try to get the tone from the recorded version of "Hot For Teacher" on the 1984 album. That was Ed's 1958 Korina Gibson Flying V and trust me a 5150 replica with a Floyd Rose just will not get there. Now if you go after the live sound from the 1984 Donnington footage of "Hot For Teacher", then you will be on the right track. He is using the 5150 Kramer there and at least you have a hope in hell of getting close to that sound with your 5150 replica.

As far as the neck goes, I've mentioned my enthusiasm for it for many years. Even when I had just the neck out of the box with no strings on it I could tell it was the most comfortable neck I have ever played on. The EBMM/original 5150 scanned neck profile is incredible. My tech and my painters and anyone else that touches this neck agrees...unbelievably great and easy to play from the open strings all the way to every note at the 22nd fret.
Last edited by garbeaj on Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
garbeaj
Senior Member
Posts: 3020
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:58 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Houston, TX

Re: My black Musikraft "5150" sort've replica

Post by garbeaj » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:05 pm

Here's another positive note...I've finally proved that I can place the Fender string tree almost exactly as it was on the original 5150 guitar's headstock. My theory of matching the pitch by using the pinging behind the nut heard during the bridge immediately preceding the solo of "Feels So Good" from the 0U812 album proved to work like a charm!

http://youtu.be/6eb2XW0et8g?t=2m32s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Though Eddie is playing the original Frankenstein with a Kramer neck on it in the official video, I believe that he used the 5150 guitar to record this guitar part and the majority of the electric 6 string guitar on the 0U812 album. I just slid a Fender string tree along the B and E strings somewhere between where I placed the block Kramer logo and the regular "bar" Floyd string tree...in fact the pitch ended up falling perfectly at a sweet spot between the Floyd bar string tree and the "K" in the Kramer logo-pretty much like the Fender string tree is positioned on the original. Eddie needed to put this string tree on the original guitar because the Floyd "bar" string tree was too short to keep the strings from sliding past the headstock and there was also probably some issue with the Floyd nut and the angle of the tuners that caused the high E to go past the headstock...I have the proper "longer" Floyd "bar" string tree and it already works perfectly in that my high E passes to the high E tuner perfectly. But by adding the Fender string tree and using the "Feels So Good" recording as a reference I have been able to achieve almost identical pitches when strumming behind the nut as Ed did on the original 5150.

This is a small and obsessive thing, but I've never heard of anyone getting this right or even caring to...but I'm stoked that I figured this out!
Last edited by garbeaj on Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Post Reply