Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
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- garbeaj
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Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
OK...not that anybody gives a shit, especially because I seem to be the only one here that has a Peterson digital strobe tuner with Sweetened Guitar setting...but I'm writing this anyway so I have a reference handy for myself.
So...I've already posted some of the Van Halen I tunings I have found for use with the Peterson digital strobe tuner in "Sweetened Gtr." setting. In fact, so far, ALL of the tunings I find are using the "Sweetened Gtr." setting on the Peterson digital strobe tuners. I've tried to come up with the easiest way to quantify the pitches, especially for strangely tuned recordings like "Running With The Devil" and I have basically notated where the "A=__" pitch reference changes, sometimes in different references on individual strings as on "Running WIth The Devil" and "You Really Got Me" for instance.
"You Really Got Me" is tuned (I believe) at approximately 1/2 step down with the following references for each string:
6th string (Low E)...Eb...A-446
5th string............Ab...A-447
4th string............Db...A-447
3rd string............F#...A-447
2nd string............Bb...A-446
1st string (High E)..Eb...A-447
This is referenced from both the DCC Compact Classics 24k Gold Master Recording CD and the isolated guitar track.
I used my '75-'76 Ibanez Destroyer as I did in my transcription of "Runnin' With The Devil" which I believe is tuned as follows:
1st string: Eb A=444
2nd string: Bb A=448
3rd string: F# A=449
4th string: C# A=449
5th string: Ab A=449
6th string: Eb A=448
Here are two new tuning references that I have found since I've been working on these tunes lately...
The 1984 album version of "Panama" is 1/2 step down where A=450...(Peterson "Sweetened Gtr." setting)
with the following exception:
5th string A=449
"Girl Gone Bad" on the 1984 album is in standard tuning where A=443 (just slightly off from standard pitch). (Peterson "Sweetened Gtr." setting)
This is kind've haphazard because I'm always jumping around and working on various Van Halen tunes from various albums or live clips, but again this is likely all about me and almost no one else cares.
***EDIT*** Please look further on in this thread to see my notations for the tunings of these songs using CENT values using my Peterson StroboPlus HD tuner. This tuner is capable of displaying variable cent references and the Peterson StroboClip that I used at the beginning of this thread does not have that capability.****
So...I've already posted some of the Van Halen I tunings I have found for use with the Peterson digital strobe tuner in "Sweetened Gtr." setting. In fact, so far, ALL of the tunings I find are using the "Sweetened Gtr." setting on the Peterson digital strobe tuners. I've tried to come up with the easiest way to quantify the pitches, especially for strangely tuned recordings like "Running With The Devil" and I have basically notated where the "A=__" pitch reference changes, sometimes in different references on individual strings as on "Running WIth The Devil" and "You Really Got Me" for instance.
"You Really Got Me" is tuned (I believe) at approximately 1/2 step down with the following references for each string:
6th string (Low E)...Eb...A-446
5th string............Ab...A-447
4th string............Db...A-447
3rd string............F#...A-447
2nd string............Bb...A-446
1st string (High E)..Eb...A-447
This is referenced from both the DCC Compact Classics 24k Gold Master Recording CD and the isolated guitar track.
I used my '75-'76 Ibanez Destroyer as I did in my transcription of "Runnin' With The Devil" which I believe is tuned as follows:
1st string: Eb A=444
2nd string: Bb A=448
3rd string: F# A=449
4th string: C# A=449
5th string: Ab A=449
6th string: Eb A=448
Here are two new tuning references that I have found since I've been working on these tunes lately...
The 1984 album version of "Panama" is 1/2 step down where A=450...(Peterson "Sweetened Gtr." setting)
with the following exception:
5th string A=449
"Girl Gone Bad" on the 1984 album is in standard tuning where A=443 (just slightly off from standard pitch). (Peterson "Sweetened Gtr." setting)
This is kind've haphazard because I'm always jumping around and working on various Van Halen tunes from various albums or live clips, but again this is likely all about me and almost no one else cares.
***EDIT*** Please look further on in this thread to see my notations for the tunings of these songs using CENT values using my Peterson StroboPlus HD tuner. This tuner is capable of displaying variable cent references and the Peterson StroboClip that I used at the beginning of this thread does not have that capability.****
Last edited by garbeaj on Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:04 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
Congrats on obtaining one. Good to know the references of A.
I guess I never really worried much about it. I believe there are the reference changes but man..... I ain't got that kind of time..... well, I spend it other places when I am messin with other aspects of guitar. I just never focused on this ever very much. I just tune up Eflat sweetened and rock. I know there is something off when you play along with the recordings. But if you don't do that ever you may never notice things like this. And its not just vh music either.
Is it planned? Is there a reason for it?? Or just happens that way???
Maybe this could help explain some of daves waaaaay off pitch singin lately. God its aweful.
Nah... I think dave just can't hit it anymore.
I guess I never really worried much about it. I believe there are the reference changes but man..... I ain't got that kind of time..... well, I spend it other places when I am messin with other aspects of guitar. I just never focused on this ever very much. I just tune up Eflat sweetened and rock. I know there is something off when you play along with the recordings. But if you don't do that ever you may never notice things like this. And its not just vh music either.
Is it planned? Is there a reason for it?? Or just happens that way???
Maybe this could help explain some of daves waaaaay off pitch singin lately. God its aweful.
Nah... I think dave just can't hit it anymore.
- garbeaj
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
Well I'm of the opinion that these pitch differences were certainly planned in the case of the first album tunes that actually have different pitch references for individual strings like "Running With The Devil" or "You Really Got Me".dirtycooter wrote:Congrats on obtaining one. Good to know the references of A.
I guess I never really worried much about it. I believe there are the reference changes but man..... I ain't got that kind of time..... well, I spend it other places when I am messin with other aspects of guitar. I just never focused on this ever very much. I just tune up Eflat sweetened and rock. I know there is something off when you play along with the recordings. But if you don't do that ever you may never notice things like this. And its not just vh music either.
Is it planned? Is there a reason for it?? Or just happens that way???
Maybe this could help explain some of daves waaaaay off pitch singin lately. God its aweful.
Nah... I think dave just can't hit it anymore.
In other cases, it could also be that Ed just picked up his guitar and tuned it by ear or in combination with his Peterson strobe tuner and then had Mike tune to him...or Eddie may have tuned the bass himself because he may have actually played bass on the track and Mike was nowhere to be found on the track at all.
Of course almost all of Van Halen's albums were recorded on tape and there could be pitch variation because of tape speed problems or deliberate manipulation of tape speed, but there is so much variation in pitch that I think it is really down to how Eddie purposely tuned his guitar, especially since we know he was tuning this way purposely on the first album at the very least.
Dave is just way off pitch because he shredded his voice in the 80s and it is never coming back, barring some sort of miracle involving surgery or extremely effective vocal coaching and discipline on the part of Dave when it comes to taking care of his voice and actually caring about singing. In other words, I agree with you!
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
How about the inotanation sucked on his home brew franky and he tuned it by ear to sound right?
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
Bam!How about the inotanation sucked on his home brew franky and he tuned it by ear to sound right?
- garbeaj
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
Right..that would mean the intonation sucked on all the guitars he used to record with, including the Ibanez Destroyer, which is the one where he really got creative with the tuning on "Running With The Devil" and "You Really Got Me".
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
Jamie's Cryin as well. Most guitars just don't do that one D, whatever Chord is it is with the open B string quite right without flattening the B string. Which of course also means the 1st E string has to be a smidge flat. And, this song is overall flatter than RWTD, ATBL and a few others on the record as well. Was kind of crazy on those first few records. On VHII, Women In Love and Beautiful Girls also fall flatter than most of the other songs. At least by my ear.garbeaj wrote:Right..that would mean the intonation sucked on all the guitars he used to record with, including the Ibanez Destroyer, which is the one where he really got creative with the tuning on "Running With The Devil" and "You Really Got Me".
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
You really look at franky and its actual cobbled'ness and undesireable slapped togetheredness......
Its a f'n miracle what he did with that thing and sounded the way he made it sound. Truly.
Most of us woulda never even thought of tryin to be "billy badass" with that kinda guitar let alone attempt pullin off something epic with it.
I think he fought miserably with the tuning on franky. Simple as that. By accounts of his tedious restringing, oiling nut slots, widening nut grooves, etc etc... I bet the tuning was simply tryin to keep it in tune with itself from string to string and not so much about being on an exact pitch reference. Thats why we get the anomalies of tuning. He did her anyway he could pull her off. Thats how the franky was born is out of the same attitude. Which was "I am determined I will make this work cum, bleed or blister".
Its a f'n miracle what he did with that thing and sounded the way he made it sound. Truly.
Most of us woulda never even thought of tryin to be "billy badass" with that kinda guitar let alone attempt pullin off something epic with it.
I think he fought miserably with the tuning on franky. Simple as that. By accounts of his tedious restringing, oiling nut slots, widening nut grooves, etc etc... I bet the tuning was simply tryin to keep it in tune with itself from string to string and not so much about being on an exact pitch reference. Thats why we get the anomalies of tuning. He did her anyway he could pull her off. Thats how the franky was born is out of the same attitude. Which was "I am determined I will make this work cum, bleed or blister".
- garbeaj
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
Well I do believe that there is a method to these tunings...there is always a specific "Sweetened" effect that is achieved. Specific chords and two note power chords have certain almost beatless harmony. The verses of "Panama" demonstrate this...in fact that song from start to finish is an example of this at work. The tuning on "Running With The Devil" was no accident. "You Really Got Me"...again, no accident in my humble opinion. He had a great ear and a Peterson and he tuned those tunings to make the best compromises among the open strings and fretted notes to make the music he made on his instrument work the best.
I realized this with the songs on the first album, but getting the exact tuning on "Panama" right showed me it was an ongoing thing that he did with his music when using different guitars, not just because of tuning problems with the Frankenstein. He had specific tunings for specific recordings using the Frankenstein when it had a vintage Fender tremolo and when it had the various Floyd Rose tremolo systems (non-fine tuner and then the final fine tuner version), and he tuned the original Destroyer specifically on the various first album recordings ("RWTD", "YRGM", "Jamie's Crying", etc.)...the use of specific pitch references that just so happen to work perfectly with the various songs and various guitars in the catalog, it just happens too often with too many songs, too many guitars and too many years of recordings for it to be an accident in my opinion.
I realized this with the songs on the first album, but getting the exact tuning on "Panama" right showed me it was an ongoing thing that he did with his music when using different guitars, not just because of tuning problems with the Frankenstein. He had specific tunings for specific recordings using the Frankenstein when it had a vintage Fender tremolo and when it had the various Floyd Rose tremolo systems (non-fine tuner and then the final fine tuner version), and he tuned the original Destroyer specifically on the various first album recordings ("RWTD", "YRGM", "Jamie's Crying", etc.)...the use of specific pitch references that just so happen to work perfectly with the various songs and various guitars in the catalog, it just happens too often with too many songs, too many guitars and too many years of recordings for it to be an accident in my opinion.
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
I could buy that. Its very possible Ed tweazeled in certain things, especially in the studio for that extra edge.
I have no doubt Ed was then, and now, solidly aware of the impossibility of tuning a guitar perfectly.
No way he is gonna write the riffs he did with things especially like RWTD and not compensate for it.
So thinkin about it more now I can totally believe it was on purpose. It just had to be.
I have no doubt Ed was then, and now, solidly aware of the impossibility of tuning a guitar perfectly.
No way he is gonna write the riffs he did with things especially like RWTD and not compensate for it.
So thinkin about it more now I can totally believe it was on purpose. It just had to be.
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
All very plausible.
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- garbeaj
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
Hey just wanted to give this thread a bump and an update...
I've got two buddies here that now have the identical tuner that I've been using to come up with these tunings, the Peterson StroboClip. I hope to get their input on the tunings I've come up with here following the methodology I've outlined here...ie. "Sweetened Gtr." setting and varying the pitch reference either for all strings or individual strings depending on the recording to match what we find with our ears and the tuner itself.
I know this thread isn't for everyone, but I do think it is really helpful to finally have accurate tuning references for as many VH recordings as possible. You can apply this same method to any artist, but Ed's tunings, especially on the Roth era albums is really unique and worth noting in my humble opinion:)
I've got two buddies here that now have the identical tuner that I've been using to come up with these tunings, the Peterson StroboClip. I hope to get their input on the tunings I've come up with here following the methodology I've outlined here...ie. "Sweetened Gtr." setting and varying the pitch reference either for all strings or individual strings depending on the recording to match what we find with our ears and the tuner itself.
I know this thread isn't for everyone, but I do think it is really helpful to finally have accurate tuning references for as many VH recordings as possible. You can apply this same method to any artist, but Ed's tunings, especially on the Roth era albums is really unique and worth noting in my humble opinion:)
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
To muddy the waters further, consider that it was not uncommon to turn up the varispeed on the tape machine a bit in mixing or mastering if the track felt like it was dragging, or to give a little excitement. That could account for an overall increase in pitch, and the unique drum sounds to a degree. Obviously, it doesn't explain the individual string inconsistencies though.
George
George
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
That is a great point George.
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Re: Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference
HaHa...brought that up before...and basically have been left for dead ever since....VelvetGeorge wrote:To muddy the waters further, consider that it was not uncommon to turn up the varispeed on the tape machine a bit in mixing or mastering if the track felt like it was dragging, or to give a little excitement. That could account for an overall increase in pitch, and the unique drum sounds to a degree. Obviously, it doesn't explain the individual string inconsistencies though.
George
Seems strange that people who have never set foot in a studio with those old school machines think they know more about
it than those who have.....typical internets....
I want my music waking up the dead...
Dont tell me to turn it down
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Dont tell me to turn it down
if its not loud enough you must be really old...huh,what,what did you play?