Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

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TWANGGG
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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by TWANGGG » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:08 pm

Megaro wrote:In listening to the clips posted by jape88, I can hear Mike's bass on both clips. That suggests to me one or two cabs in the same room. I am of the opinion that Ed had his main amp going into one cab, and that the clips we are hearing are from an on axis and off axis mic on one speaker cabinet. But that is just my guess.

However, the pics from the recording sessions of Van Halen 2 show that both speaker outputs were being used. So maybe Ed was using two speaker cabinets in the studio. See pic below. I can see one boom mic, but I can't see a second.

Image
There are other shots from the same photo shoot where the bare wood danelectro neck guitar on the stand that's between Edward and the bottom speaker cab has been moved and the mic boom and SM-57 it's holding are clearly visible. In this pic you posted you can see the mic boom and can just see the mic peeking out on the right side of the guitar.
Megaro wrote:I don't know, I think we have to make some guesses and assumptions. But that is what makes this hobby and this forum so much fun
Thanks for starting this thread.:thumbsup:
Last edited by TWANGGG on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by TWANGGG » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:21 pm

rgalpin wrote:That pic is so great! Man I wish someone had snapped a pic during VH I sessions.

I just noticed in this pic that the one cab on the floor with the variac sitting on it is facing away from him. That would be what you would do if that cab was the main cab - high volume - too loud to point directly at a mic'd drum kit (or possibly humans). The one up by his head would be at a volume to make it comfortable to hear DETAIL just loud enough to hear over the drums. Can't remember if we decided this pic was staged. But as unlikely as it seems that they would be laying down tracks with little or no isolation - it's even harder to believe that they would take the time to stage such a detailed shot.
As to whether these Zlozower photos were staged just for the photo shoot, or if they show the actual setup in the studio for the recording of VH2, here are a couple of quotes that are very convincing in support of the latter.

First this quote from user Trace from the old ampage.org board from March 2000 who spoke directly to Ted Templeman about the recording of Van Halen's first album:
I spoke with Ted Templeman once at an AES show and he said all he used on the first album (for gain) was the amp and he (Ted) recommended the variac because they all wanted to play in the same room together. This way he didn't have to play as loud to get the gain he wanted and it would cut down on the leakage.
Whether it's true or not that Ted "recommended" the variac is debatable, regardless Ted states that Ed used his variac for volume reduction in the studio for the recording of VH1 so they could all record in the same room.

Then there's this:
Creem(May 1982): Do you use it(variac) in the studio as well?
EVH: Especially in the studio. I've used these Ohmite things since we've played the clubs.
Considering these quotes I'm convinced that these photos do show the actual setup for the recording of VH2. Ed's got his variac right there in easy reach to keep his volume at just the right level for recording in fairly tight quarters.

It is too bad no photos have surfaced from the VH1 sessions, but to me these quotes suggest that the studio setup for the recording of VH1 would likely have looked very similar.

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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by vanhalen5150 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:03 am

Unless one of the cabs behind the bomb has a mic'd JBL, I don't see any in that pic. They are in the parking lot pic though. Has anyone matched the cabs from those 2 pics.
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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by Mr.Farva » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:10 am

vanhalen5150 wrote:Unless one of the cabs behind the bomb has a mic'd JBL, I don't see any in that pic. They are in the parking lot pic though. Has anyone matched the cabs from those 2 pics.
I thought he only used jbl's before vhII?

Question is that the wireless receiver for the Schaffer Vega Diversity?
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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by Velva » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:21 am

Yes it is likely for the Schaffer Vega... Look at the previous picture posted. You can see the diversity system wireless unit sitting between the 2 cabs. I would guess it was used on DOA because it sounds fuller than other tracks but that is just pure speculation nothing more...

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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by jape88 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:35 am

I think that is for the Schaffer.

Most of Ed's stripped cabs were the plastic handle cabs so '72 onwards (round '72/73 skid trays and corner angles started), both the two small check cabs in the pic are '75/76 cabs (blackbacks) and are the two pictured outside the studio. The cab top right with the boom mike on it looks a mid 70's slant to me with the actual marshall cloth on? so this could be either BB's or Cream/Grey backs inside.
The other miked cab is the one angled towards Alex (with the aerial) this one can't be the JBL cab as it's got corner angles on... so maybe the JBL is in iso somewhere? but as MrFarva states the JBL was quick to disappear from Ed's backline after the first (maybe second) world tour.
The only old cabs I can spot are the top left corner brace one's (top left and centre) these would be pulsonics if they were stock and be around the 68/70 period (Ed does have a '67 cab in the 5150 studio pic with his keyboard on it).

The other confusion with Ed's speakers are a lot of straight cabs marshall made (1936's) were shipped with T1511 as opposed to T1221's and these would of had bass cones and been rated at 55hz and do sound slightly darker than T1221... so there's no sure fire way of find what was actually miked :palm: One thing I do feel is that Ed didn't record the first and second albums with 20watters as these were phase out by marshall to be replaced in '67/68 by the 25 watt spk.

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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by jnew » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:03 am

Yeah. The speaker thing is very very tough to call. I can only suspect that G12M, 25 watters were used MOST of the time but as to Pulsonic coned, BB's or whatever others, shit the bed man. We've probably heard some of each for all we know. Wouldn't surprise me if some H types were in some songs. Very tough but M types would be my best guess. 8)
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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by rgalpin » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:24 am

TWANGGG wrote:
I spoke with Ted Templeman once at an AES show and he said all he used on the first album (for gain) was the amp and he (Ted) recommended the variac because they all wanted to play in the same room together. This way he didn't have to play as loud to get the gain he wanted and it would cut down on the leakage.
Ted recommending the variac here... here is an assumption of mine on this: It's not as if Ted is introducing Ed to the variac here - I assume Ted is saying, "Hey - use the variac the same way you use it on stage." I can easily imagine Ed thinking that he will want to blast the full glory of the amp in the studio without what he may have considered to be a compromise. (Extrapolating even further here) think of how the Gene Simmons demos just don't have "IT" in the guitar sound - that may be all about skipping the variac in the studio.

All that said, do we have verification of pics with Ed using the variac BEFORE the recording of VH I?

How far back can we find the variac in the live shots? Do we have a date?

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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by jnew » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:20 am

That's a great point Rob. Variac before the recording of VH I? Check. I think there is plenty of evidence of that. The Gene Simmons demo? Hmm. :scratch: My first question would be, when was that demo done? Was it before Ed started with the variac? To Rob's point, it sure sounds like it. But I think there is a story out there about how VH was flown to NYC to cut those demos, without their own gear. So it could be a point in time where Ed WAS using it, but didn't have access to his stuff for that recording. So we get Ace Frehley-ish tone. :(
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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by mr.twistyneck » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:31 am

lots of "if" statements ahead - tread cautiously.

Going by what Ed said in the Smithsonian interview, he discovered the variac trick prior to VH1. I'm drawing that conclusion because he said he was going as low as 60 volts in [some clubs], and they were primarily playing clubs prior to VH1. Now, if you have a 100 watt Marshall, and your heroes play 100 watt Marshalls, really really loud, then you too will want to do that, and the variac isn't some sort of holy grail tone gizmo -it's just a shameful big volume knob that one must employ so as not to be deemed "that guy who plays too damn loud". If said guitarist were flown across the country with no worries about volume used during recording "we'll let ya toin up real loud, kid", then there wouldn't be any need for the Knob of Shame during the Gene Simmons demos...which don't have Le Tone. Fast forward to VH1 sessions, and perhaps Templeman saw/heard what others (and perhaps even Ed) didn't see/hear - just let (or politely insist that) the guy play through his stage rig with his band in the room to get a good record.

All conjecture on my part based on what I've seen here on the board.

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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by TWANGGG » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:32 am

rgalpin wrote:Ted recommending the variac here... here is an assumption of mine on this: It's not as if Ted is introducing Ed to the variac here - I assume Ted is saying, "Hey - use the variac the same way you use it on stage."
I agree, that's also what I thought was most likely intended by "Ted recommended the variac" in that quote.
rgalpin wrote:All that said, do we have verification of pics with Ed using the variac BEFORE the recording of VH I?

How far back can we find the variac in the live shots? Do we have a date?
This photo is from the end of May 1977 at the Whisky with the Mumps. Ed has also stated in interviews throughout his career that he used a variac as a volume control in their club gigs(Creem 1982,Esquire 2012, for example).
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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by jnew » Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:50 pm

So that would have been shortly before the recording of VH I. 8)
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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by TWANGGG » Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:55 pm

jnew wrote:So that would have been shortly before the recording of VH I. 8)
Yep, and here are a couple more from earlier in 1977. So it seems likely that Ed would have also used a variac while recording the Warner Bros. demos I guess.

This has been dated to January or February 1977 based on when Van Halen appeared with the Motels.
Image

Not sure about the date on this pic(anyone?), but looks like around the same time and I wanted to post it because it's easier to identify the variac sitting just left of the heads on the stage.
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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by Tone Slinger » Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:20 pm

I like the shot (Mumps gig) of the #1 '68 and that small box 50. Most probably the configuration stated by (Strat78 ?) earlier in this thread (100 watter dimed/variaced with pedals in between it and the (50) watter, with the 50 watter being ran slightly cleaner ? Same scenario with the #1 and the Bare wood top.

Another thing, concerning the talk about the JBL's being discussed earlier here. Anybody notice how the high end/treble type tone Ed was getting on VH-1 (where the unwound strings played high on the neck are almost ALL treble sounding) ? Really, the stuff just prior to and after VH-1 (like the Civic Center) has this. By the '78 world Tour, I'm hearing straight up 25 watt celestions. I dont think our ears are decieving us.....It SOUNDS different as compared to straight 25 watters.

Back in '07 I was at a George Lynch clinic and from the information I gathered from the question/answer part and talking face to face, he said that 100%(he was affirmative in other words) Ed had the JBL's going on back then (I recall him mentioning specifically a mixed cab) . George, for a 'non tech', really has ALWAYS been interested in and aware of equipment (I used to love those interviews in the guitar mags backin the '80's).

Also, David Bray has mentioned that the VH-1 tone is that of 2 speaker types (Celestion/JBL). He mentioned the Weber JBL clone.
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Re: Old internet article on the recording of Eruption

Post by rgalpin » Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:06 am

jnew wrote:So that would have been shortly before the recording of VH I. 8)
Unless... it was AFTER they recorded the demos with Ted. So, what I am looking for then, in order to put the facts straight, is a picture of Ed using the variacs BEFORE the Ted Templeman demo sessions. Because that would likely be where they were working out pre-production decisions like what rig will Ed use.

Do we have a date for the demo sessions?

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