Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

The man, the band, and everything else

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chrisom
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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by chrisom » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:54 pm

Would Eddie have had this small "travel rack" with him for the 1987 Saturday Night Live "Stompin' 8H" performance? He certainly had the echo going and the Harmonizer pitch shift shimmer going...I realize the pic was from 1991, but I just wonder if he had it back in '87?
I have wondered the same thing. It sure sounds like he might have... :listen: :vh: :scratch:

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Rich_D
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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by Rich_D » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:27 pm

Awesome thread, thanks posters. :toast:
Interpretation?! I thought I was playing it right!

countandduke
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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by countandduke » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:22 pm

Yes, I figured this kind of thing has been covered before but I did a search and didn't find much info so I figured I'd start a thread. But yes, a BIG THANK YOU to all the posters for their info and pics!

Chris

matttornado
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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by matttornado » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:45 am

I don't understand why one would use two delays with two seperate settings of 250ms & 500ms. I am not a delay expert or use them very much so please excuse my ignorance.

Since 250 is half of 500, why not just set it to 250 for 2 repeats? you'll have one at 250 and one at 500.

is there something else going on like how many repeats there are and the mix for each delay?

I don't hear a delay in the LWAN tone. :what:

countandduke
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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by countandduke » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:11 am

I think the 500 was for "Cathedral" and the 250 was there to "fatten" things up a bit. I agree though, I don't hear a lot of delay either but I think it's there a little.

Best,

matttornado
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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by matttornado » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:37 pm

Thanks for the reply! I'll admit though....I was watching that concert the other night & his tone is really good.

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garbeaj
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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by garbeaj » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:18 pm

His playing was at a peak...it was downhill after this tour. He was never quite as fluent afterwards.

countandduke
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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by countandduke » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:23 pm

Hmmmm, I respect your opinion Garbeaj but I've seen some videos on the OU812 and the F.U.C.K. tour where Ed was playing his ass off and his tone was pretty darn decent so I'll definitely agree his playing has gone downhill but I would say through the mid 90's he was still pretty much on fire.

Best, :toast:
Chris

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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by garbeaj » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:50 pm

countandduke wrote:Hmmmm, I respect your opinion Garbeaj but I've seen some videos on the OU812 and the F.U.C.K. tour where Ed was playing his ass off and his tone was pretty darn decent so I'll definitely agree his playing has gone downhill but I would say through the mid 90's he was still pretty much on fire.

Best, :toast:
Chris
Post anything from the brief Monsters of Rock tour and the Japan Tour 1988 where Eddie is playing as well as or better than he played on the 5150 tour I'll be happy to eat my words.

Van Halen doesn't exist for me after the 0U812 album, but I have listened to many shows and watched many videos from the For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge era and as far as I've seen and heard the tone and playing took a major nosedive with the introduction of the Soldano amps and signature Ernie Ball Music Man guitars. Nowhere near the quality of tone and technical fluency of the 0U812 era which is still lesser than the 5150 album and tour.

But I'd be happy to take it back if you can post anything from the F.U.C.K. era that is as sonically and technically fluent as the 5150 or OU812 era.

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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by countandduke » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:39 pm

This isn't exactly the video I remember seeing but I think it shows a decent enough example and maybe I should clarify what I said...

First the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtLS0_4d7iY&sns=em

This was with his Musicman guitars and the 5150 heads obviously and I had one of those heads and cabs back in the day. I actually used the can for MANY years and got some real nice tones out of it. The amp I couldn't put past 1.5 because it was SOOOOO loud with TONS of overdrive.

I definitely agree that his tone has changed from 5150 to OU812 and then FUCK, but I think his playing was still pretty darn good in the posted video. Again, it's not the video I remember seeing so I'll keep looking.

I'll also add that if we gave his playing and tone a 10 on a 1-10 scale for LWAN, his 90's tone would get maybe an 8 or 8.5 but his playing was still close to 10 in my opinion.

Best,
Chris

PS. It's not about eating your words in my book, just healthy discussion.

dirtycooter
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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by dirtycooter » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:24 pm

5150 and ou812 are 2 cabs mixed down with dry and stereo fx.
I think there was a mysterious Load Box only Bradshaw could know and speak of. His lips are sealed though on what it was.
But actually from a rig perspective?
Much easier to run I think. Although how the rane was mixed and used with fx is confusing but impossible.

The wdw?? Unlawful and onward to Balance?

Less confusing but more ... Lets just say "focused on the mix".

Mixing the fx is very complex. Not impossible either, take your time and think it through.
But one needs to get a mixer, a real mixer, some good rack fx and 3 cabs.

I have had 6 mixers!
The capability of each are your limits

CAE Dual Stereo-have now
Mackie 1602 Onyx-shoulda kept
Makcie 1402 have now
Mackie 1202-let go only one aux send
Rane Sm82-have. Don't like the Aux Send blend
Behringer 16 somthin or other-love it but its background noise sucks major cock. If it was cleaner would be in my rack.
Right now currently using the 1402 or 3......

PCM80
MPX1
G Force

G Force gets the pitch great on -12/+12
Some delays-fast patch changing

PCM? Balls deep reverb deluxe-look no further!!!
It owns it here! Luck of the Irish brought it to me at stupid price. Love it!

MPXG2- MPX1? Underated! Delays are awesome!
Particarly the ping pong 250/500, 300/600 kinda shit.
Along with other capabilities in the unit. Very underated.
Considering its used price vs two sde3000's

Hint-reverbs are made of tons of delay lines.
So if a unit has good reverbs? Its delays are boss....
All processing shit though




Don't be afraid to use a Mackie 1402 or 1602 size mixer. Or bigger.
I have the CAE big ass stereo line mixer...
Still. Transparent as hell.
But the way the fx get blended Eds was either custom or the CAE mixer on Bal and Unlawful was used a submixer.

dirtycooter
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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by dirtycooter » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:40 pm

The mix on a plain two cab stereo mix is easier.
1 less cab than wdw. Every speaker in unison adds volume! Gets crazy loud fast! :shock:
So the wdw is harder to figure for this reason first.

The second issue??
50/50% mix ratio thinking?? FX wise??? Mathematically??
It goes out the window on a wdw rig. Gets stupid really to have to think about it. Dry is way less in the wet cabs but how much becomes a issue. Its very low though. Like 10-20%. The ratio of mix gets really tough when thinkin it through.
But if you are cockstrong and determined to halve/split chicks like a log splitter for the tone?? You will figure it out no prob eventually 8)

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chrisom
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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by chrisom » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:39 am

Dirtycooter- Good to hear your wisdom again! :thumbsup: :vh:

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rdodson
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Re: Live Without a Net Tone... I know, but please.

Post by rdodson » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:22 pm

I'm in the minority but I still think his best live tone was the 1984 tour. Very raw, but he had gotten his wireless sorted by that point and wasn't losing signal from the guitar.

Here is the famous "Sitting on Top of the World" jam - I can't imagine him ever sounding better:
Ron Dodson
Dallas
Romans 9:16

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