Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

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wjamflan
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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by wjamflan » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:17 pm

Here is my take on the beginning picking parts of Spanish Fly. It is only slightly different than what Allen posted.

------------H----H--------------------------H----H--------------H----P----P--------------H-----SL------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G-----------------------------------------4----5---------4----5----7----5----4----------4----5--/--8----
D------------------------4----5----7---------------7--------------------------------7----------------------
A--------4----5----7----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------D--------------D----U----D----U--------------D----U--------------------U----D----------------



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E--------------------------7----8----10----------------------7----8----10----
B--------7----8----10----------------------7----8----10----------------------
G-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
D-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------D----U----D-----U----D----U-----D----U----D-----U----D----U----



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E---------------------------8----10----12-----------------------8----10----12----
B--------8----10----12-----------------------8----10----12-----------------------
G------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
D------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------D-----U-----D----U-----D----U-----D-----U-----D----U-----D----U-----



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E----------------------------10----12----14-------------------------10----12----14----
B-------10----12----14-------------------------10----12----14-------------------------
G------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
D------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------D-----U-----D------U-----D-----U-----D-----U------D-----U-----D-----U-----



-----------------------------------------------P------P------H----------------------------------------
E----------------------------12----13----15----13----12-----------12-------------------------0----
B-------12----13----15---------------------------------------15-----------13------------------0----
G-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------14-----------------
D------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------15----------
A-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------D-----U-----D------U-----D-----U--------------------------D-----U-----U-----U-----D-----
Last edited by wjamflan on Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:13 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by wjamflan » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:21 pm

Beside the fact that he alternate picked the sextuplets, the most important part to learn to do right is this:


-------H----H--------------------------H----H-----------
E---------------------------------------------------------
B---------------------------------------------------------
G------------------------------------4----5--------------
D--------------------4----5----7---------------7---------
A----4----5----7-----------------------------------------
E----------------------------------------------------------
------D--------------D----U----D----U-------------------


Ed used this lick in many songs.....

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by wjamflan » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:03 pm

mr.twistyneck wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:53 pm
Hey, do you have the part right after this, and before the tapping, ala Bill?
Here you go Twisty:

--------P-----------------------------------------------H---P----H----P----P----H------
E----7----5--------8----7----6----5----------4----5----7----5----7----5----4---------
B----5-------------------------------------------------------------------------------7----
G----x------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
D----7------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A----0------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------D------------D----D----D----D----------D----U------------------------------------



-------------P----P--------------------P----------------------------P-------
E----4-----------------------------------------------------------------------
B---------7----5----4---------------5----4---------------4-----------------
G-------------------------7--------------------7-----------------7----5----
D----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A----------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----D----U--------------U----------D--------U----------D-----U----------



--------P---------------------------P----P-------------------------------
E-------------------------------------------------------------------------
B----5----4----------------4---------------------------------------------
G---------------7----------------7----5----4----------------7-----------
D-------------------------------------------------7----------------7-----
A-------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----D----------U----------D----U---------------U----------D----U----



--------H----H---------H----H--------------------H----P----P---------------------------H-------
E---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G--------------------4---------------------4----5----7----5----4----------------4----------------
D----4----5----7---------5----7--------------------------------------7----------------5----7-----
A----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----D---------------U--------------------D----U---------------------U----------D----U----------



--------H---------------------------H----P----P--------------------------H-------
E-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G----4----5---------------4----5----7----5----4----------------4----------------
D---------------7-------------------------------------7----------------5----7-----
A-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----D----------U---------D----U--------------------U----------D----U----------



--------H-------------------------------------H----H-----------
E----------------------------------------------------------------
B----------------------------------------------------------------
G----4----5---------------4----5----7----4----5---------------
D---------------7-------------------------------------7---------
A----------------------------------------------------------------
E----------------------------------------------------------------
-----D----------U---------D----U----D----U-------------------



--------------P----P---------------------------P----P------------------
E-----------------------------------------------------------------------
B-----------------------------------------------------------------------
G----5----7----5----4----------------4--------------------------------
D--------------------------7----------------7----5----4----------4----
A------------------------------------------------------------7----------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----D----U---------------U----------D----U---------------U----------



Other than the Ice Cream Man cadenza lick at the beginning and the I'm the One first solo lick in the second-to-last bar I posted, it's all Eric Clapton's Sitting On Top Of The World cadenza licks. Amazing how many ways he re-purposed them. I love it. Hope it helps....
Last edited by wjamflan on Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by Megaro » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:04 pm

Bill is back :rock:

Question for you guys about the photo garbeaj posted of Ed holding his pick for the speedy triplet picking. Ed is holding it with his index finger which is on the side of the pick. Is that the way to do it ? That feels weird to me. I am very much on board with angling the pick and the slicing action. I learned to play with my pick between the thumb and middle finger, and I switch up to the thumb - index finger for the tremolo picking because I thought that what Ed was doing. But that was a long time ago. Might be time to update my technique.

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by wjamflan » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:11 pm

That's the pic I posted in the Allen's other thread that doesn't show up any more b/c of Photobucket. Anyway, he's holding it with his middle finger. The index finger is just on the tip of the pick. The important point is the angle Ed held the pick at. Imitate that to do Ed's alternate picked runs and they are much easier because you have less pick resistance.

Also, Ed's tremolo picking was thumb and middle finger with no index on the tip....

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by Rich_D » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:06 pm

Didn't Eddie say he played this on a steel string Ovation that he switched to nylon strings? I think he said it ruined it by changing the strings.

Image
Interpretation?! I thought I was playing it right!

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by garbeaj » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:10 pm

Rich_D wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:06 pm
Didn't Eddie say he played this on a steel string Ovation that he switched to nylon strings? I think he said it ruined it by changing the strings.

Image
No he used the nylon string Ovation that you see in this picture. Not sure where you heard that story, but it definitely wasn't Ed!
Last edited by garbeaj on Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by garbeaj » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:14 pm

wjamflan wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:17 pm
Here is my take on the beginning picking parts of Spanish Fly. It is only slightly different than what Allen posted.

------------H----H--------------------------H----H--------------H----P----P----H--------H-----SL------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G-----------------------------------------4----5---------4----5----7----5----4----------4----5--/--8----
D------------------------4----5----7---------------7--------------------------------7----------------------
A--------4----5----7----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------D--------------D----U----D----U--------------D----U--------------------------D----------------



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E--------------------------7----8----10----------------------7----8----10----
B--------7----8----10----------------------7----8----10----------------------
G-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
D-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------D----U----D-----U----D----U-----D----U----D-----U----D----U----



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E---------------------------8----10----12-----------------------8----10----12----
B--------8----10----12-----------------------8----10----12-----------------------
G------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
D------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------D-----U-----D----U-----D----U-----D-----U-----D----U-----D----U-----



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E----------------------------10----12----14-------------------------10----12----14----
B-------10----12----14-------------------------10----12----14-------------------------
G------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
D------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------D-----U-----D------U-----D-----U-----D-----U------D-----U-----D-----U-----



-----------------------------------------------P------P------H----------------------------------------
E----------------------------12----13----15----13----12-----------12-------------------------0----
B-------12----13----15---------------------------------------15-----------13------------------0----
G-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------14-----------------
D------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------15----------
A-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------D-----U-----D------U-----D-----U--------------------------D-----U-----U-----U-----D-----
Hey Bill!!! Glad to have you back here!

I thought I had everything written out correctly but I'll review this and make changes...thanks for posting the next segment too! I was going to ask you for that but we've been so busy with our "other project" that I didn't want to bug you.

At this point we can do a complete accurate TAB of your fingerings for "Spanish Fly" as well!!

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by wjamflan » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:15 am

garbeaj wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:14 pm
Hey Bill!!! Glad to have you back here!

I thought I had everything written out correctly but I'll review this and make changes...thanks for posting the next segment too! I was going to ask you for that but we've been so busy with our "other project" that I didn't want to bug you.

At this point we can do a complete accurate TAB of your fingerings for "Spanish Fly" as well!!
Sorry. It's been a bit of a rough year. I haven't forgot about what you were asking me to do. I just happened upon this and thought I'd make my little contribution to the cause. Anyway, I did make one other edit to the first line, in case anyone was wondering. I realized when I went back to look at it that I had forgotten to put in the second upstroke in the second lick.


------------H----H--------------------------H----H--------------H----P----P--------------H-----SL------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G-----------------------------------------4----5---------4----5----7----5----4----------4----5--/--8----
D------------------------4----5----7---------------7--------------------------------7----------------------
A--------4----5----7----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------D--------------D----U----D----U--------------D----U--------------------U----D----------------



Specifically:

------------------H----P----P-----------------
E----------------------------------------------
B----------------------------------------------
G--------4----5----7----5----4---------------
D------------------------------------7---------
A-----------------------------------------------
E-----------------------------------------------
---------D----U---------------------U---------

If you've looked at my whole transcription of the piece, you should see that Ed repeated this lick multiple times. This was his re-purposing of SOTOTW Cadenza Lick 2. I would be happy to dissect the whole piece if anyone wants, but besides the tapping, left hand pulloffs, and the sextuplets, the entire piece is Ed doing Clapton.

In my humble opinion, the reason why this piece has been slightly mistranscribed over the years is that Ed's picking can be hard to hear correctly because of the right hand muffling and pick angle - picked strokes don't always sound the same. But once you have a basic understanding of how he did things mechanically and what the ingredients were, lick-wise, the tune makes a whole lot more sense and doesn't seem so random. Hope this helps some folks.

Regards,

Bill
Last edited by wjamflan on Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by garbeaj » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:06 am

Hah! Hell yes it helps everyone!

Bill you've been a light in the darkness as usual and this only makes me more passionate about getting your observations out in the world. If you can post your complete TAB for "Spanish Fly" I'll work on getting it into a professional looking format.

For those of you that don't know, I've been working on getting Bill's incredibly accurate observations on Ed's playing into a fully fleshed out professional looking format. The ultimate goal for me is to have as many of Bill's complete transcriptions set in a format that looks identical to the officially licensed guitar magazine and official transcription books. My hope is to make them identical...except they would be ACCURATE!

I would include my tuning notations and any other small thing I could contribute, but this is a project that I intend to represent Bill's observations more than anything. I go over every note with Bill and confirm or occasionally dispute what he finds...but truth be told, we rarely disagree. If we ever agree to disagree, I almost always keep trying it the way Bill teaches it to me and then I go with his original observations in the end!

We can't afford to pay for official licensing and publishing fees to get Bill's work published in a magazine (physical or online) which would be a dream of mine because it would get the most eyeballs, but I want to get the finished products posted here and in as many pertinent websites as I can. And I want this to be available FOR FREE. So many have charged money to teach things completely ass-backwards and this knowledge should be available to anyone that cares and really wants to learn.

Bill and I are fans of Ed's playing and we both feel Ed's playing has been underserved at the very least. As many times as Van Halen's music has been officially transcribed or had online lessons posted for a fee or for free, they've all been woefully inaccurate. Bill has really made MAJOR breakthroughs and I want to share his work with as many people who care to really learn the material as possible!

Thanks for everything Bill and thanks to all of you out there who give a shit!

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by wjamflan » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:09 am

Allen is too kind. I'm not looking for any special attention. I'm a teacher by trade, so I actually like helping people...

Anyway, just in case there are folks who aren't familiar with the EVH/Clapton connection:

Sitting On Top Of The World (cadenza)

--------------H----P----------------------------------H----P-------------
E---15--------------------------------------------------------------------
B---------15---18---15---------------------15---15---18---15---------
G--------------------------17--------------------------------------17----
D--------------------------------------------------------------------------
A--------------------------------------------------------------------------
E--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----D----U----------------U----------------D----U----------------U-----
----|--------Lick-1---------|--------------|--------Lick-2---------|----

The down-up-up picking pattern is what characterizes these licks. Ed used them all over the place, re-purposing them, combining them, playing them on different strings and string sets. They are absolutely essential to know if you are going to play EVH correctly. Some don't believe that the connection is as pervasive as I'm saying, but it's plain as day when you really study the licks. Most would not have thought of Spanish Fly as having a heavy Clapton influence, but it does.

One other thing.... the first lick (that I said he used in many songs)...

-------H----H--------------------------H----H-----------
E---------------------------------------------------------
B---------------------------------------------------------
G------------------------------------4----5--------------
D--------------------4----5----7---------------7---------
A----4----5----7-----------------------------------------
E----------------------------------------------------------
------D--------------D----U----D----U-------------------


...is also another re-purposed Clapton lick. I call it the Crossroads lick, even though Ed didn't learn it from Crossroads; he probably learned it from I'm So Glad. If you are scratching your head going whaaaat?? then try playing this:

Crossroads Lick

---------B1--------------------------------------------B1---------------------------------
E----------------------------------------------------------------17---17---17---17------
B-----------------17---17---17---17---------------------------17---17---17---17------
G---19---(21)-------------------------------------19---(21)-----------------------------
D------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------D-----------D----U----D----U----------------D-----------D----U----D----U-------

Do you see the down_down-up-down-up picking pattern? If so, then you've got it. There's lots more for me to say, but I'll shut up for now so I don't overstay my welcome. Again, hope this helps.

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by garbeaj » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:32 am

And also notice the "silent hammer-on" at the 7th fret of the D string in that lick at the 5th position which Ed does all over the place...Bill caught that and no one else has. It's a subtle thing, but it is key.

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by wjamflan » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:13 am

In case anyone is interested.... here's a link to the Spanish Fly picking parts slowed down to 1/6 speed: http://www.mediafire.com/file/up0q859na ... _speed.wav

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by mr.twistyneck » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:41 pm

Bill - much appreciated, as always.
thanks!
Twisty

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Re: Spanish Fly and EVH's Ovation

Post by garbeaj » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:27 am

wjamflan wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:13 am
In case anyone is interested.... here's a link to the Spanish Fly picking parts slowed down to 1/6 speed: http://www.mediafire.com/file/up0q859na ... _speed.wav
Whoa! I need work on this...thanks again Bill! The slowed down track is giving me a brain aneurysm!

So stratonetor, have you tried Bill's TABs? I'm dying to get a nice Ovation classical, but I'd like one of the later single cutaway models just for comfort and ease of use. I really love the sound you achieved...the guitar records very well! I've used an Ovation Ultra steel string as my main acoustic guitar since I got it for my 14th birthday in 1986 and I've been jonesing for an Ovation classical for quite a while...your post really has my guitar acquisition syndrome firing up again!

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