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VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 4:35 pm
by kiddangerous
I've been making some solid progress over the past couple of months, check out this clip set against the original backing track for Feel Your Love Tonight. Things missing include the plate reverb and a 1.5kHz dip that I think was done in post.

https://soundcloud.com/themusicologygro ... comparison

I need to re-re-visit the other albums because I think the same setup was used with slight variations.

Re: VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 9:59 pm
by Tazin
Sounds really good. A lot of the fudimental "nitty-gritty" of Ed's tone appears to be present.

Re: VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 8:46 am
by Lbrown3743
Sounds awesome man!

Re: VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 9:50 pm
by kiddangerous
Thanks, always helpful to have a few more ears on things. Despite the existing differences this tone is definitely fun to play.

Re: VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:17 pm
by rgalpin
i love the way that sounds! when you dig in to the E and A strings, the low end is strong. backbone!

what are you using? you refer having made progress - so i guess you may have posted your spec in earlier thread - but if you wouldn't mind re-posting the spec here, that would be awesome.

Re: VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:52 pm
by Tazin
rgalpin wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:17 pm
i love the way that sounds! when you dig in to the E and A strings, the low end is strong. backbone!

what are you using? you refer having made progress - so i guess you may have posted your spec in earlier thread - but if you wouldn't mind re-posting the spec here, that would be awesome.
I believe it's all software based stuff....No "real" amps.

Re: VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:50 am
by kiddangerous
Thanks! Yes, that's correct. My approach is pure software.

That being said if you have the real gear it should sound the same! In the app I'm running a '69 spec plexi into a blend of vintage Blackback and JBL speakers, mixed slightly more with the Blackback. It's surprising how the tone changes as you shift between the two. Also I've afforded for mismatching the cabinet impedance to bring out more top end though I have no proof that this was done, it could have been in post as well.

Re: VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:47 pm
by Tazin
kiddangerous wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:50 am
Thanks! Yes, that's correct. My approach is pure software.

That being said if you have the real gear it should sound the same! In the app I'm running a '69 spec plexi into a blend of vintage Blackback and JBL speakers, mixed slightly more with the Blackback. It's surprising how the tone changes as you shift between the two. Also I've afforded for mismatching the cabinet impedance to bring out more top end though I have no proof that this was done, it could have been in post as well.
Are there any "alterations" to the '69 plexi circuit (i.e. different cap values, different pot values, etc.,)? Or better yet, what are the specs your using for the amp simulation?

Mismatching cabinet impedance?...For the JBL speakers?

Re: VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:59 am
by jape88
Tazin wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:47 pm

Mismatching cabinet impedance?...For the JBL speakers?
Don't think it's the same mismatch your implying (amp/cab?), but every jbl d120 (both orange and grey frame) I've seen has always been 8 ohm, in fact after getting two I had to get some old 8ohm greenbacks to complete the cab ...or did Ed or Rudy even bother matching the speakers :scratch: all those cabs he had I find it hard to believe they were not all 16ohm cabs at the jack.

Nice simulated tone kiddangerous, would like to know how you achieved it.

Re: VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:18 pm
by kiddangerous
Thanks. The model corresponds to the 1959 schematic dated from 1970.

The only additional change was related to the top end as I mentioned. There has been plenty of debate over whether an attenuator or a slave was used. It still stands that the top end on that guitar tone was unparalleled for the time. Regardless of how it was done I allow going beyond spec so to speak to capture the same grind at the right point in the signal chain.

Re: VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:25 pm
by dnatronic
jape88 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:59 am
Tazin wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:47 pm

Mismatching cabinet impedance?...For the JBL speakers?
Don't think it's the same mismatch your implying (amp/cab?), but every jbl d120 (both orange and grey frame) I've seen has always been 8 ohm, in fact after getting two I had to get some old 8ohm greenbacks to complete the cab ...or did Ed or Rudy even bother matching the speakers :scratch: all those cabs he had I find it hard to believe they were not all 16ohm cabs at the jack.

Nice simulated tone kiddangerous, would like to know how you achieved it.
I've thought about this. If Ed did use use two 8 ohm JBLs with two 16 ohm greenbacks, the the overall cab impedance would be about 10 ohms. If Ed and/or Rudy realized this, they could have run the amp at 8 ohms and the match would have been pretty close. Or maybe they didn't bother which could explain all of the blown output transformers that Rudy mentioned in an interview. Who knows?

Re: VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:26 am
by jnew
Try this on for size. The 50W Marshall with the big Ohmite across the primaries. That acts as a load and significantly reduces output. Now a speaker out runs directly into the front of his 100W. :shock: Not kidding. Heard this yesterday from a highly regarded source.

BTW, the modeler clip that started this thread is pretty killer. I think that could be further EQ'd to hit home plate. :thumbsup:

Re: VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:05 pm
by johnnybgoood
jnew wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:26 am
Try this on for size. The 50W Marshall with the big Ohmite across the primaries. That acts as a load and significantly reduces output. Now a speaker out runs directly into the front of his 100W. :shock: Not kidding. Heard this yesterday from a highly regarded source.
This sounds really really interesting. What is the value of the resistor? Can you post a schematic that shows the best place to connect the Ohmite?

Re: VH I Tone (revisited)

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:08 pm
by jnew
I don't know the value of that resistor but Mr Twisty neck did this experiment with a number of values, and loaded a video on YouTube. And you don't really need a schematic. It's just a resistor that would go between Pins #3 on Valves 5 & 6 (or 4 & 5 for a 50W) So my best guess would be a value that would be pretty darn quiet in the room since that would still be a hot signal compared to a line level, or instrument level. But yes, it is very interesting and I can see this adding that serious scratchy hair in the tone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7HAknjipE0