Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

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FourT6and2
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Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by FourT6and2 » Fri May 05, 2017 3:49 am

I'm sourcing parts for a new build. Amp is starting life as a high-gain Jose style. But I'll be making some tweaks. Anyway, Any reason(s) I should go with one over the other? A "vintage" tone is NOT something I necessarily want. This is more modern hard rock, metal. But that doesn't mean "sterile" sounding. I still like character and lots of harmonic overtones and whatnot. But I don't want anything that's going to lend toward a loose "brown" sound. The three I'm considering are:

Mallory 150
TAD (same as Mojo Dijon?)
SoZo


For resistors, I know I'll be using at least 1-watt, 500v in most places (higher wattage for the places that need 'em). And I'm thinking about going with mostly metal film (like Dale/Vishay CCF60, 1% or the PRP Audio 1%). Any reason(s) why I should stay away from either of those, or look at something like Riken carbon film instead? My focus is on reduced noise and then tone. I don't want something that's going to be harsh or too hi-fi sounding (if it even makes a difference).

Anything special about more expensive ones like Shinkoh (tantalum)? Or Riken (now Amtrans), or Kiwame?

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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by Roe » Sat May 06, 2017 9:34 am

the new sozos and synergi caps are good and 150s are ok (the mojo/Tad are not)
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FourT6and2
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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by FourT6and2 » Tue May 09, 2017 6:11 am

Roe wrote:the new sozos and synergi caps are good and 150s are ok (the mojo/Tad are not)
It's hard to decipher what's what when it comes to the SoZo/synergy story. SoZo made caps? Then they changed somehow? Then some company bought the rights to the original product and those are now being sold as Synergy? And the ones being sold as SoZo now are something else? The Synergy caps are like $6 each. It's hard to justify paying that much on a product that nobody seems to know about, with basically zero real-world success stories out there.

What's wrong with Mojo/TAD?

This is going to be a high gain amp. I don't play vintage blues or classic classic rock or EVH stuff. It's modern hard rock and metal for this amp. So are "vintage" caps that have magic mojo pixie dust really going to make a difference? I popped the chassis of my current production amps from KSR, which sound godly to me, and it's all 100% Mallory 150s and Dale/Vishay CCF60 metal film resistors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WY2lICcJvo

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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by Roe » Tue May 09, 2017 6:55 am

the mojo/tad are not at all like a mustard, the sound is very different and much brighter
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FourT6and2
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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by FourT6and2 » Tue May 09, 2017 6:58 am

Roe wrote:the mojo/tad are not at all like a mustard, the sound is very different and much brighter
I think the assumption here is that I want something that sounds exactly like a real Mustard cap? Do I? I don't know if I do or not. Would a vintage Mustard cap be the right choice for a modern, high-gain amp?

harddriver
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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by harddriver » Tue May 09, 2017 9:48 pm

For aggressive more modern tones check out the Illinois MPW metalized Polypropylene caps, or Orange Drop P715 Polypropylenes, as well as WIMA caps that I believe Bogner and Diezel uses( not 100% sure about Diezel's use of them), looks like WIMA MKP's in the VH-4 pics I've googled, I'm not sure on their construction(polyester or prop). None are Mustard type vintagey caps IMO but do your own research to make your final decision which might work best for you.

Mallory 150's are Metallized Polyester foil similar construction to old Mustard caps but are brighter and tighter in their response( Less vintagey I guess) please correct me if I am wrong in this assumption. Your discovery of them in KSR amps tells you how they would sound in your application.

The IC MPW's an some WIMA's were being used in the Production Cameron Old Bitch amps and it looks like Standard Metallized Polyester and Wimas(not sure if MKP's) in the Atomica builds you can listen to those amps see if they catch your ear at all.

The Illinois MPW's are aggressive as hell, tight when used as cathode caps or coupling caps seem to keep it together under gain. I have used MPW and 715's and really like them in high 3 and 4 gain stage high gain builds versus Mustards types(sozo). A lot of Cameron Aldrich's used the P715's and those amps are aggressive and heavy sounding as hell with a lot of bite and attack. Supposedly the new Synergy Sozo's handle higher gain better than the old ones according to what I have read but I have not used them so I can't comment, all the new BE-100's are supposed to be using them so there's your comparator to tone and gain for those.

Hope this helps your research. :hairband:
Last edited by harddriver on Wed May 10, 2017 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

FourT6and2
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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by FourT6and2 » Wed May 10, 2017 12:18 am

harddriver wrote:For aggressive more modern tones check out the Illinois MPW metalized Polypropylene caps, or Orange Drop P715 Polypropylenes, as well as WIMA caps that I believe Bogner and Diezel uses( not 100% sure about Diezel's use of them). None are Mustard type vintagey caps IMO but do your own research to make your final decision which might work best for you.

The IC MPW's were being used in the Production Cameron Old Bitch amps not sure on the Atomica builds you can listen to those amps see if they catch your ear at all.

The Illinois MPW's are aggressive as hell, tight when used as cathode caps or coupling caps. I have used MPW and 715's and really like them in high 3 and 4 gain stage high gain builds versus Mustards types(sozo). Supposedly the new Synergy Sozo's handle higher gain better than the old ones according to what I have read but I have not used them.

Hope this helps your research.
Awesome, thanks!

I have a stash of Mallory 150s already, so I might just use those. But I'll look into the IC MPWs. IC = Illinois right? There's also the Vishay MKT 1813 series (metalized polyester like the Mallory), and I think Cornell Dubilier (CDE) has a 150 Series, that seem identical to the Mallory 150s. I wonder if they're the same...

Where might I find the IC MPWs? I'll check Mouser and DigiKey.

I dislike the 715s. They are harsh and ragged sounding to my ears.
Last edited by FourT6and2 on Wed May 10, 2017 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

FourT6and2
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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by FourT6and2 » Wed May 10, 2017 12:19 am

Well look at that, seems like CDE also has those same MPW caps as well... Found at Mouser and DigiKey. EDIT: Oh wait, I think Illinois and CDE are the same company now?

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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by harddriver » Wed May 10, 2017 12:22 am

The last place I saw IC(Illinois capacitor) MPW's for sale was at Antique Electronic Supply nowhere else, that's where I got mine. CDE caps I think are Polyester( Splawn uses those), aggressive and tight amps). It was quite awhile ago when I got them(MPW's), not sure if they are still being made.

Ya got a lot of choices... :stars:

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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by FourT6and2 » Wed May 10, 2017 12:29 am

harddriver wrote:The last place I saw IC(Illinois capacitor) MPW's for sale was at Antique Electronic Supply nowhere else, that's where I got mine. CDE caps I think are Polyester( Splawn uses those), aggressive and tight amps).

Ya got a lot of choices... :stars:
So when you say IC MPW, are you referring to these? https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/part ... gIa0fD_BwE

Those are metallized polypropylene. The ones at Mouser are listed as "Illinois/CDE" and are also indeed metallized polyproylene. The CDE 150 series are polyester, just like the Mallory 150s.

Illinois/CDE at Mouser: http://www.mouser.com/Cornell-Dubilier/ ... zlgf&No=25

CDE 150 Series (same as Mallory????): http://www.cde.com/resources/catalogs/150.pdf

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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by harddriver » Wed May 10, 2017 12:36 am

Yeah that' s them. I've not found the 715's to be harsh at all maybe tight and a little hi-fi precise sounding to my ears which is wanted in some section of certain circuits.

I found the MPW's kind of was crunchy/aggressive like a mustard but stayed defined and tight. I can't promise how they will sound to you though, they're not cheap.

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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by FourT6and2 » Wed May 10, 2017 12:45 am

harddriver wrote:Yeah that' s them. I've not found the 715's to be harsh at all maybe tight and a little hi-fi precise sounding to my ears which is wanted in some section of certain circuits.

I found the MPW's kind of was crunchy/aggressive like a mustard but stayed defined and tight. I can't promise how they will sound to you though, they're not cheap.
Added what I needed to my cart for this build and the IC/CDE MPWs came to $28. Not too bad, I guess. I might give those a try as well and do a little comparison to the Mallory 150s. Thanks for the suggestion!

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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by harddriver » Wed May 10, 2017 12:53 am

You'll have a good selection to dial in the exact tone you're looking for, that's what I do. The regular older sozo's tend to be a warmer/rounded response if you find a cap that's too bright/aggressive/raspy in certain areas in your circuit like bright caps/cathode caps/ bypass caps. You'll hear a difference between them that's for sure. :listen:

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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by FourT6and2 » Wed May 10, 2017 1:10 am

harddriver wrote:You'll have a good selection to dial in the exact tone you're looking for, that's what I do. The regular older sozo's tend to be a warmer/rounded response if you find a cap that's too bright/aggressive/raspy in certain areas in your circuit like bright caps/cathode caps/ bypass caps. You'll hear a difference between them that's for sure. :listen:
Yeah, man totally! Thanks for the help. Here's where I'm starting: http://www.ceriatone.com/ceriatone/wp-c ... t-2015.jpg

But I'm planning on running a 350-0-350 volt PT, lowering the V1a plate resistor to something like 330k, 0.047uF PI caps instead of 0.1, and 2.7k cathode resistors in V1a/b, instead of 820R. Maybe a few other things here and there. But that's a good starting point.
Last edited by FourT6and2 on Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cap and Resistor Suggestions?

Post by Roe » Thu May 11, 2017 2:27 am

FourT6and2 wrote:
Roe wrote:the mojo/tad are not at all like a mustard, the sound is very different and much brighter
I think the assumption here is that I want something that sounds exactly like a real Mustard cap? Do I? I don't know if I do or not. Would a vintage Mustard cap be the right choice for a modern, high-gain amp?
No, it was TAD/Mojo who described these as mustard type caps, something that is not accurate. Moreover, these are not even the right choice for modern, high-gain. At least, several other caps work better for high-gain. Mustards can work for high-gain, if you want a british tone without too much brightness. Both Friedman and Larry use mustard type caps for high-gain
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