Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

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awangotango
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Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by awangotango » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:25 am

Anyone else notice the change in the selling/buying market for guitar gear, specifically vintage but even more generally. My experience is telling me it's dropped off a cliff in terms of who's buying and the price.

Any ideas as to thy why's and how's?

How is your current job/financial situation?

What do you think of the economy and state of world generally?

What affect if any is due to the low slave wage asian labour and their cranking out of decent parts and full guitars?

Do you feel guilty for spending time playing and instrument?

Do you have any time to do such purposeless activities?

etc

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Tone Slinger
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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by Tone Slinger » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:09 am

Yeah, the economy. The various levels of 'middle class' have vanished (through OBVIOUS avenues). You now have here in the USA, what has ALWAYS been in Mexico, central and South America (well for the MOST part) which is NO middle class....just the rich and poor (have and have nots). Making money is behind the vintage market and all the valuable stuff is ALREADY owned by the rich. There is no point of a rich person selling a vintage guitar to another rich person. There is no clout or esteem in that.
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awangotango
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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by awangotango » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:13 pm

but all the mainstream media outlets tell me the economy's coming back and there's no inflation and unemployment is just over 6 percent. they wouldn't lie would they? even though others suggest gdp is -2.1%, unemployment closer to 30% and inflation at several percent. But they use honest data to come up with those numbers so they are suspect in the upside down world we live in today. Detroit and the rustbelt as a whole has never been more vibrant. :stars:

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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by rgorke » Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:19 pm

So, you're saying it is more of a buyers market for vintage gear?
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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by neikeel » Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:55 pm

rgorke wrote:So, you're saying it is more of a buyers market for vintage gear?
Only if people are selling.....would you sell something that you bought as an investment for less than you bought it for unless it was a 'fire sale' or estate clearance?

One good guitar is essential, two useful if you earn your living that way. In a flat economy where ordinary mortals have to provide a roof, feed and educate the children some things have to go which includes extra high end vintage guitars that need to be kept in a vault. I have a few vintage amps and cabs, but all my guitars are relatively new (sold the 70's and 80's Gibsons to fix my car a while back) and I see little prospect of buying a vintage guitar at the moment. Someone in my line of work calculated that our income had dropped by 30% in real terms between 2008 and 2014. We are fine, but fripperies like vintage guitars are out :(
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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by Wattever » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:14 pm

I've REALLY noticed it around here in the last several months.

I don't pay much attention to the vintage/collector stuff (out of my league) but the plain meat and potatos stuff is way down in price. Things like older Peavey Bandits that would easily go for over $200 last year are struggling to make $125. now.

I don't know the reason, but I have some theories.

I see a LOT of ads for new beginners stuff, that if you read between the lines, the seller is saying some variation of, "I bought this to learn on, but it was HARD! So i quit." It seems like there aren't many with the attention span or incentive to learn an instrument these days.

Another thing I think is hurting the market, is with the ban on smoking in bars around here, there really isn't much call for bar bands anymore. The bars are struggling just to keep the doors open, they aren't going to take a chance on unknown bands. Without gigs, there isn't much incentive to go buy gear. (I see "not gigging anymore" frequently as a reason for selling)

One problem in this area, is that our version of Craigs list, not only allows, but encourages what is basically spamming the listings. There are dodgy businesses and individuals reposting thier (usually overpriced) stuff, daily. Some even several times a day for months on end. Often there is only one new listing buried somewhere on the whole first page, and anyone with money to spend has decided that life is too short to wade through the same ads day after day and have taken their money elsewhere.

I'm REALLY hoping it comes around soon, because I've been buying any decent non-functioning stuff I see advertised and repairing it with hopes of resale, but I've been holding off selling in hopes of the prices rebounding some this winter. It's starting to look like a Pawn shop around here!

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NY Chief
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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by NY Chief » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:34 pm

I still see plenty of $20k strats for sale.... :cry:
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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by worldoftone » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:05 pm

The time to buy was 2008 - 2009. I snatched a bunch of stuff up then. Sold a lot of it off in late 2012 for a profit. The market was artificially inflated for years. Economics doesn't work like that. Nothing can keep sustaining a 400% a year increase (LP Juniors et. al.). It was brought back to reality with the recession. I saw guys taking HOME EQUITY loans to buy vintage guitars. Dumb, Same guys were selling off their gear when they lost their jobs and are now in debt due to bad decisions. You know the market is BS when player quality gear is priced way out of reach.

Buy instruments and gear because you like them, not for a profit. It will be a much sweeter ride. Technically, I made a financial mistake by not selling all my vintage stuff in 2006 and early 2007. I would have seriously cleaned house. Problem is I found this gear throughout the years and love it because it all sounds and plays great. I love my axes and amps and they are the cream of the crop for me. And yes I still gig em all :rock:

I love that the prices are still down. The average Joe can get him or herself into decent vintage gear now without having to sell their soul. Especially player quality gear.

:jimi:

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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by worldoftone » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:07 pm

Hey Chief, a lot of those $20K strats were $40 - 50k in 2006. I remember cuz I almost let my '58 go then. Of course 20K asking is ASKING and not sold ;)

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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by awangotango » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:42 am

there is also much less gear for sale. I wonder if the living room guys are holding out and waiting for the prices to come back? If so, I wouldn't get your hopes up. The kids have no money and are not into our nostalgia for vintage. They don't care or appreciate the tone of old. It's gone, and rock n roll is about to roll over too it seems because you can't play rock n roll with bass heavy overley preamp gain and without the right tone, we all know you can't get the rock n roll message across.

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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by charles anthony » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:15 am

Well put awango. Do not give up the causeh may still be hope for the young'ens. They all cant hide behind the fizz forever. . . :what: Can they?

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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by awangotango » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:17 pm

you wouldn't think so, but it's been a good 40 years now. that cycle should have started over by now......I never give up all hope, just gettin' worried no new page or schenker is around the corner.

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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by charles anthony » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:38 pm

I am Going to place blame on the music industry. People just keep digesting the junk that is pushed through the machine. Industry is motivated by consumption of junk. If you build it they will come does not apply. I am way out of the loop anyway. There is hope . . . Here we are. :shred:

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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by Scumback Speakers » Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:14 pm

There's a few vintage gear buyers out there to be found, myself included. However, it really has to be a good/special, and hardly modified piece to make me break out the $$$. Or if it's rarer than hen teeth, that's another trigger to buy.

But due to there not being that many available gear pieces in circulation, those that have them are probably hoarding. I know I am guilty of that one. And when a nice piece comes up I don't share it with any of my friends until it's in my house, paid for, done deal, etc. Not trying to be a dick, but if you blab about something, you might get beat to the punch paying for it.

I've bought several pieces since the market turned down, at great prices. And I really don't haggle. They know what they have, they know who I am (many times, not always), they know I know what I'm looking at to see if it's straight or a lash up (Music Ground terminology) to be avoided.

Sometimes you just don't advertise what you have. Certainly some do. That's fine.

But don't be misled or misguided...when a few better known players came to my demo room, sometimes the question of "I wonder what these speakers would sound like with ________?"

Many times I can pull one out, even vintage, if its a Gibson. Fenders, sorry, although my demo partsocasters/etc are pretty stellar (at least according to those that like that style guitar) from what I'm told.

As for buying or selling, you always have to be looking and have available cash. Period. Regardless of your age, when something old/rare/vintage comes up, it's a seller's market, even now.

It will come around, too. Why do I say that? You can try one of my Orville Les Pauls I've fixed up, and go "Damn, these play great and sound great!"

Then they fire up the 68 LP Custom, and they ask if it's for sale. (Sorry, it's not).

So there will be a market there, as the younger players become aware of what the older guitars offer, tonally, playability and worth.

With that said, I think I'll pull out the original 1953 LP Goldtop Wraptail I acquired in April and play a few tunes.
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Re: Current Vintage and other guitar market WTF

Post by caver » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:40 pm

I watched a cream white Electra LP copy go for $405 yesterday on ebay. I had one just like it and sold it to a buddy in the early 80's. It was stolen from him shortly thereafter. This was a post-lawsuit model too. But then again just a couple years ago some Dr. in a northern state bought my Tokai strat off CL for about $400. he said he collected them and it too was a post-lawsuit model.
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