Want that VH1 tone? You gotta slave it!

guitar007 · Post by **guitar007** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:46 pm

ericopp wrote:Bad news: I'm melting my ARCOLs.

Good news: I don't care! I'm never going back to playing/recording any other way. My POD is gathering cobwebs (no joke). This is the only way to play!

Do you have a pic of your load setup?

ericopp · Post by **ericopp** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:53 pm

Oh, would you like to SEE the resistors melting?

To be serious: no, I don't have any pics OR clips.
Sounds like I've got some homework to do...

guitar007 · Post by **guitar007** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:05 pm

Just be careful not to blow up your rig! Time to add a few more R's in parallel.

mr.twistyneck · Post by **mr.twistyneck** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:22 am

I had a Guytron head - serial # 167, I believe it was. I spoke with Guy several times over the years about it. What a neat head - basically it was an amp with EL84 power tubes dumped into an internal load box, and then into an EL34 power amp section. So the idea was to have that slaved amp setup all in one head.

It worked great - Although I must confess that buying a 2700 dollar head and then carting it around to frat gigs in the cardboard shipping box wasn't the brightest of moves. I beat that tar out of that amp. I even spilled an entire jack and coke down the vents, quickly turned it off, finished the set on somebody elses Peavey while the liquid baked off, then fired it up and finished the 3rd set. I only blew it up once, and that was actually some weird component failure, not a design flaw or inadvertent alcohol bath.

I used it on my old band The Boodogs' 5 song EP, which we did a couple of years before I went to the Marshall head with the hotplate and/or c e r r e m's mod. The thing that used to drive me batty was that one day it would sound very deep, then other days it sounded like a buzzing insect. So at one time, I termed that peformance "organic" and touted it's virtues (you can google around and find my review of the head on harmony central), but after awhile, i wanted to try something else. then i saw a guy selling a super bass who had a vid of it dimed thru a hot plate, and i punched the buy it now button and never looked back. i think i may have got 900 bucks out of the Guytron - amazing since I had abused it so much. I kinda wish I still had it, but then again, i think it was just one of those amps that comes into one's life, and then goes out again.

I'll admit that using a wet/dry setup with a Hotplate or "Mod" or what have you can be just as, if not more unpredictably organic, or organically unpredictable. I will say this: the first time I blew a head, turned around while the band went into a vamp, and saw smoke puffing out from between the bottom of the chassis and the lip, i thought "This - THIS is rock and roll.....cooooooooooool". beware the loud fool...

ericopp · Post by **ericopp** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:41 am

Hey Richard!

Figures that you would be the Guytron guy.

Also, it's very revealing that your slaved Bill L plexi (with the C mod!) would sound every bit as righteous as a Guytron.

Would you care to enlighten the masses as to how awesome Bill L (with mod) sounded WITHOUT any slaving?

mr.twistyneck · Post by **mr.twistyneck** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:19 pm

[marshall purism ON] Nothing sounds as good as a Marshall! [marshall purism OFF]

whatever works if fine, if you think it sounds good and it makes you smile. I think being loud helps too, for no particular reason.

Bill L, running without a Hotplate or ******'s Mod, or without the limiter/half power switch kicked in is a stock circuit. So without attenuation, it sounds like a Snarky metal front Super Lead. Back in the '80's, I had the chance to play through a half dozen real Plexis - and I hated every one of them. Just nasty sounding amps, IMHO. At the time, I wanted the overgained sound at a reasonable volume, and there weren't any Hotplates back then. Also, I wanted channel switching - and that was a no-go. So feature-wise, I passed on some vintage gear that I would literally set myself on fire for now. Oh well. And yes, I tried the power brake setup way back when and thought it sounded awful. How times change.

So if you traipse down to the Nashville area, and were to drop by the practice area and take a look at Bill L., you would say "That's ugly!" and "What the heck is that OPT out of? A Plush amp or something?" and "What did you do each time you tried to fix it - turn around and roll it down the stairs, or what?". Point is - I seriously doubt that ol' Bill is anything sonically special. If you crank him up with no attenuation, it will cut your head off. The only way I ever had fun with a true dimed Marshall that had no attenuation was to hook two 50ft cords together, turn the amp towards the street and walk all the way down the driveway and play that way. I got about the same effect with an attenuator. Does that help?

nhendrixsc · Post by **nhendrixsc** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:52 pm

So what is the best device for collecting the first amps load and turning that into a low level signal for input into second amp?
Weber mass??
Palmer??
Reamp??

Thanks

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:32 pm

nhendrixsc wrote:So what is the best device for collecting the first amps load and turning that into a low level signal for input into second amp?
Weber mass??
Palmer??
Reamp??

Thanks

i think the most important thing is that it be a reactive load so that the amp acts like it's seeing a real speaker. palmer doesn't provide a load at all if i remember correctly.

MarkCameron · Post by **MarkCameron** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:23 pm

rgalpin wrote:
nhendrixsc wrote:So what is the best device for collecting the first amps load and turning that into a low level signal for input into second amp?
Weber mass??
Palmer??
Reamp??

Thanks
i think the most important thing is that it be a reactive load so that the amp acts like it's seeing a real speaker. palmer doesn't provide a load at all if i remember correctly.

nhendrixsc .....go back and read and use the search this info is all over this form

Not for this... the resistive load has the better tone.

The Palmer and the GT one are both reactive load type

The reamp thing is not for this and is not a load at all

Good Guest · Post by **Good Guest** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:25 pm

nhendrixsc wrote:So what is the best device for collecting the first amps load and turning that into a low level signal for input into second amp?
Weber mass??
Palmer??
Reamp??

Thanks

The Mark C/Jose load with transformer line out..hands down! The line out function of that particular load allows you to connect effects like phasers and flangers and eq's between amps without any of the problems you get from all the other devices. As well as connecting to an amp without all the tone coloring drawbacks , squeals, and noise you get from the reactive load type devices.

I just disconnected it from my setup as I was getting vh1 fatigue...if there is such a thing..haha

IloveMyMarshall · Post by **IloveMyMarshall** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:45 pm

rgalpin wrote:
nhendrixsc wrote:So what is the best device for collecting the first amps load and turning that into a low level signal for input into second amp?
Weber mass??
Palmer??
Reamp??

Thanks
i think the most important thing is that it be a reactive load so that the amp acts like it's seeing a real speaker. palmer doesn't provide a load at all if i remember correctly.

palmers pdi-03 has load and line with there special filtering section! You know what I did I built the damn thing inside my amp lol f it! put the line out in front with a 5k pot, she works fine i stold your Ideal got from Mark C with using a Boss Eq7 to bring the level down even more and eq it!
Mark you there is this ok?? Also whats the deal with a transformer in jose load box did you ever find your notes on that??

nhendrixsc · Post by **nhendrixsc** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:01 pm

Mark C. -- I'm sorry but I have read all over this forum and it seems that there are several load boxes out there. I would very much like you to point me in the right direction. I even tried to get a phone number for you but could not remember if you worked for rack systems or not. I thought about calling Roy Blankenship and asking him if he knew your number, but have not got that far yet. Anyway any help is needed and I am very thankful.

MarkCameron · Post by **MarkCameron** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:25 pm

nhendrixsc wrote:Mark C. -- I'm sorry but I have read all over this forum and it seems that there are several load boxes out there. I would very much like you to point me in the right direction. I even tried to get a phone number for you but could not remember if you worked for rack systems or not. I thought about calling Roy Blankenship and asking him if he knew your number, but have not got that far yet. Anyway any help is needed and I am very thankful.

Look for
Search for....Jose Load box....But its just a 250watt 16ohm (or something = to this)resistor and a transformer line out. If anybody wants to call -----818-445-2059

nhendrixsc · Post by **nhendrixsc** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:32 pm

Thanks

ericopp · Post by **ericopp** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:33 pm

Clearly, I'm still struggling with the posting of clips 'n pics.

For those that care, my load setup is:
2 ARCOL 50w resistors rated at 8ohms wired in series plugged into one speaker out of my 50w Marshall 2205.
2 ARCOL 50w resistors rated at 8ohms wired in series plugged into the other speaker out of my 50w Marshall 2205.

I have the resistance of my output on the amp set to 8 ohms.

The 2205 has a built in line out which I run to my wife's old college dorm room stereo amp which then drives my Weber 1x12.

The ARCOLs get hot as heck. Should I set the resistance on the amp to 4 ohms? Would that help?