First Metro Build - 12-Series

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somethin'else
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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by somethin'else » Sat May 15, 2010 3:23 pm

Right on Roe, will check that out. You're talking about the SoZo right? Hmm, not sure if I have something that will do. Might have to order some. So, anything like .01, .0047, .0022, or .001uf? I could borrow the .0022 from V1...

Blocking distortion. Aahhh. ZZzzrRRttTt!

So, it's a grid resister then? Not a "flying" resistor... :?

I'll get some value in there to swap with the .022. It's pretty tight right now with the high end lowered. The 100k grid resistor definitely brought some back, but it seemed "thinner", where the 220k kept things... tight. Not necessarily fatter though.

I should say I have two of Terry's los alamos GEs in V1 & V2 and a Mullard CV4024 in V3, which totally rocks. Those GEs are ALIVE! and then the Mullard keeps everything tight on the brink. I suppose I could get some high end and some hair back in there with your suggestions. :D

I really appreciate it!
dave

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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by vanhalen5150 » Sun May 16, 2010 4:32 am

somethin'else wrote:uuhhhh... that's what I'm calling it. Check that thread link out in my last post (sorry, highlighted in blue). It's an awesome thread with other killer stuff in it too.

It's basically a 220k resistor attached directly to pin 2 of V3, then the green wire attaches to the other end of the resistor. It totally cleaned up my sound and distortion. I just tried swapping the 220k with a 100k, and some of the high end presence came back, giving up more "cymbalic" top end distortion. But I switched back to the 220k. It's tight, and I can really lay into low chords without the notes crapping out and going "ZZzzrrTT".

Flying Lead's what I call it, but I gives names to stuff that I don't quite understand, 'cause I like to pretend I'm making up a whole new language. Dangerous round here, I know, I should watch that! :oops: Correct me if I'm wrong?
Ok, got ya now. Wondering if you could just attach at the board, rather than the pin itself?
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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by vanhalen5150 » Sun May 16, 2010 5:06 am

Thats a good little read. Dont you wish all this stuff was condensed? I never would have found that.
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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by somethin'else » Sun May 16, 2010 9:52 am

Dont you wish all this stuff was condensed? I never would have found that.
Yeah, like a "Common Problems FAQ" for 'tards like me! Of course, it would take someone with the deep knowledge to write it. And there are many here who I've already learned so much from. 'Saved me $100s in amp tech visits. Thank You All and you know who you are!

I searched "Bad Distortion" "Weird Distortion" "ZZzztt" (with many combinations of "Z" and "t") "Farting" etc. Then you have to follow links within those answers. A crash course in speed reading, and a mountainous curve for a first time builder. Worth every minute.

I layed into the amp last night for an hour and a half, and The Sound came back. SHzzITT!
I kept on playing 'cause besides that small annoyance, everything else is there in spades.

Back on the bench later tonight, I'll post all readings. I know the bias hasn't drifted much on the JJs, as I check everytime I take a break, just to see. I might move the purple wire to the 8 ohm tap (on the 16 ohm tap right now). The Presence purple wire has plenty of air and distance from the tone controls. It's a tad shuffly sounding when rolling, but no squeal.

Also going to re-check under board for OT wire routing, twisting, and clearances. Temp undo zipties like Junkie said and move stuff around. The OT puts out the most hum with the Standby switch on. Gonna make sure ground wires lay on the chassis and the OT wires float over them.

I had a vision (don't laugh) that something might be amiss in the "push-pull" part of the operation, causing the amp to give it up, or cave in momentarily (ok, now you can laugh). What does that mean? Don't ask me.

Got any of that Crown Royal left? I need one. Somebody Get Me a Doctor!
dave

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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by vanhalen5150 » Sun May 16, 2010 10:06 am

Yeah, I have to do all that as well with the all the wire.

Couple guys I jam with came over yesterday to check out the amp. They were in awe, that I knew(seemed) what I was doing as I pointed things out to them. Even without tweaks yet they were jaw dropping. So much so, they finished off my celebration Crown Royal, as well as 12 pack of Olands Export Ale. :evil:

Yeah, that idea of a trouble shooting page would be great.
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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by vanhalen5150 » Sun May 16, 2010 10:09 am

Hey! Check the measurement on your feedback resistor. What are you getting? 47K?
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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by somethin'else » Sun May 16, 2010 10:41 am

47k should be. I won't be able to til tonight. Lil dude has his last soccer game today.

To measure, I have to lift one end correct? Or as Junkie says disconnect on purple.

Thanks! And congrats on blowing your buds away with that beast. :)
dave

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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by vanhalen5150 » Sun May 16, 2010 1:14 pm

Yeah, don't worry about disconecting anything on my part. I took mine out and it's 5k. Just one of those oddities I guess.

Bass player and a drummer. How hard is that?

Funny thing is they took a cab. Had trouble finding my place? Street # 6481....I took the 68 brass numbers off and put those on the headbox.

They're tight, not bright.
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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by somethin'else » Sun May 16, 2010 4:42 pm

Had trouble finding my place? Street # 6481....I took the 68 brass numbers off and put those on the headbox.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I must say, that "68" is pretty swanky! Talk about a Badge!
AND you have the cork in case anyone comes sniffing around in there?!

Crazy, man, just crazy... I like it. :D
dave

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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by vanhalen5150 » Sun May 16, 2010 4:45 pm

:lol:

I don't own the place... I rent it..... :lol:
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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by somethin'else » Sun May 16, 2010 11:44 pm

I don't own the place... I rent it..... :lol:
well, that makes sense ... and with that, good sir, i can only congratulate you on your riff-raffery! :lol:
dave

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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by somethin'else » Mon May 17, 2010 12:06 am

Got 'er opened up again and noticed the v3 Mullard CV4204 was a bit unseated! I checked the pins and re-seated it, played some more... and, ZZzzrrTT. Took readings, then tossed a Sylvania in there, took new readings, played some... and... rock and roll my zits are gone!

I noticed on my 50 watter and now here that voltages were weird with that tube in v3. I hear that 12AT7s will do the same. Well, I love that tube, 'cause it puts things through really tight, but maybe too tight. Maybe causing the bad distortion? Also, my overall voltages seemed to come back up and balance out with another 12ax7.
VOLTAGECHART.jpg
VOLTAGECHART.jpg (145.74 KiB) Viewed 1772 times
I'm knockin' on wood, but I hope that's it for the Zits (they are annoying as f&gnH@ll)

5150, are your voltages with all tubes in? I got 507vdc at first with only v1-3 in but no v4-7 tubes, which of course looked great to me. But having all tubes in and biased up, things sort of "settled down". Just curious. Also, I think the carboncomps pull everything down some over the course of the board.
dave

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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by vanhalen5150 » Mon May 17, 2010 7:44 pm

Yeah, my chart was with them all in. Yours looks pretty good for now, but it will shift a bit. I had problem with 2 of my pre amp sockets. Tubes will just not go in the whole way so, Im going to replace those. What are you getting on your 27K bias resistor?
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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by somethin'else » Tue May 18, 2010 12:11 am

26.7k, and 46.4k on the other bias resistor.

Would that be a place that the overall plate voltage could drop?

Things are slowly settling. I have 480 tonight, with bias between 33 & 35.5 vdc. Not shabby, and loud enough to call the dentist. Just wondering "where that initial 500 B+ goes". I know the tubes soak up quite a bit.
dave

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Re: First Metro Build - 12-Series

Post by somethin'else » Tue May 18, 2010 12:16 am

Are the socket pins messed about? Too tight for the pins? Are the tube pins starting to bend at angles? The JJ pres went it really snuggly, which was nice, but the NOS glass went a lot easier. Almost too easy.
dave

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