Debate on Eddie's Plexi

[Mcewen4444]

If it is against rules to link to other forums, mods please delete.

This might interest some of you:


http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=746279" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Many pages and some trolling but John Suhr chimes in with some info on Ed's number one Plexi. Looks like Dave F. has it in his shop at the moment to restore it to it's former glory.

[vanhalen5150]

Thats some interesting reads man. Thanks for the link. Guys are still debating the same shit over and over.....it's just too funny.

[vanhalen5150]

I find the final post from today rather amusing though.


Originally Posted by Rupe
Thanks John...I sincerely appreciate you sharing your experiences.

One question. If the only mod in Ed's amp is this one small part that barely makes a difference, why is there so much secrecy around it?


J.Suhr

Because Ed and Matt asked me not to discuss the particulars of that specific amp, I have already said way more than I should and an amp is more than a change of 1 part. The exact parts used, voltages, layout, transformers etc etc are ALL part of the equation, as is very important ... his fingers.
__________________
John Suhr-President JS Technologies Inc - Suhr Guitars - CAA Amplifiers - CAE Cabinets

[Good Guest]

Aww yep don't forget dem fingers..

I read thru half the stuff..I side with all the stuff Nitro says. I still find it kinda funny that all the people who seen the inside of the amp all make high gain cascaded preamp amps.

You would think if they were trying to capitalize of the brown sound they would have that one part but within say 10%...

Even the Dutch dude makes his gainland pre and alludes to the brown sound ...after seeing the insides. Then if he made the amp stock again it's no wonder the techs that came after are seeing a stock amp..it's because he returned it to stock..no wonder Ed was pissed. Can you imagine you send this guy your heavily modified jose special and he returns it with a standard plexi circuit with one part wrong.

I think guys like rockstash are getting close to what is going on in the amp..same with ralle. Kinda got the van halen amp elite in a bit of a frenzy.

[vanhalen5150]

.......

[vanhalen5150]

Ed/Dweezil interveiw during Balance album.

"I just plug into it and turn everything all the way up. There's no master volume. No extra tubes. There's no nothing to that amp. Matt Bruck [one of Eddie's techs] actually got me using that amp again because he had this guy Peter Van Weelden, who's totally into making Marshalls original again. He took mine and made it original, and I guarantee it doesn't really sound any different than the day I stopped using it. It's just cleaned up now, and it still goes "shhhhh" if you get too close to it. It does all the bullshit that I hate about a Marshall, but it does have a unique sound."

[leadguy]

I agree with Sinasl1.

A lot of tail chasers arguing stupid points that are never accurate anyway.

Also it's not just one Plexi.

Some of it's pretty funny like Nitro saying the same thing over and over, Jose and the pedal, and Nitro thinking the Box 1/Box2 are pedals and the button switches are amp switches when the button switches are Echoplex switches and guys who don't believe a Plexi and especially a transitional Plexi with a variac can get Ed's gain when who knows if they have ever really played a dimed Plexi or what their experience is especially when Sinasl1 and others posted clips of stock Plexi circuits getting in Ed's gain ballpark.

It's very hard judging things by ear as people hear things differently and opinions differ but some things o sound a bit obvious to most people and if a stock Plexi is hitting Ed's gain level to most people then ----.

Nitro just dismisses sinasl1 ATBL VH1 attempt and Nitro is entitled to his opinion.

Nitro also got the Ronnie Montrose thing wrong as well, there is a Ronnie Montrose interview and he says he used a Bandmaster and a Big Muff on the Montrose recording, not a champ and Nitro was never really convinced Ed's Destroyer was a Ibanez and not a Gibson.

Nitro certainly stirs up a debate though even if his facts are of uncertain origin sometimes.

Dudes like Nitro say that they never heard Joe Walsh or Joe Perry or whoever sound like Ed in the 70s but perceived gain is also dependent on what frequencies are involved and Ed turns all the tone controls etc to 10 and uses a variac and Joe Perry etc would not have done either of these things.

[stef]

this guy's 1986 amp sounds really good!

"I have posted these clips here plenty times already, but here is a stock 50w 68' plexi, no pedals, just guitar and amp, reverb added at the console. Guitar was a Korean Peavey Wolfgang, amp dimed, everything but bass at 10.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=6822593" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=6822594" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; "

[leadguy]

White knob at the back, maybe a standby jack in the back that disconnected the power tube cathodes.

"OK , The bottom line for me is when I saw it the amp was 100% untouched except for filter caps and 1 added part which I prefer to keep to myself (Dave knows it well of course too). It is a very minor addition that Jose did giving it a slight bit more bass in the treble channel, when Ed demo'd the amp for me he dimmed every control. The circuit other than that was STOCK.... BUT !! it was not the every day Normal circuit, there were a few oddball parts that Marshall did use from time to time. Not every Marshall follows the schematics. The ONLY Change besides the minor tweaks when I saw it was the VHT transformer. My job was to replace that transformer with a donor from another plexi with a similar circuit and close serial number that belonged to Matt. I know my information and amp are correct since Matt not to long ago asked me for Schematics because He said I was the last person to see it in a basically stock form. After me it went to Europe and everything was rewired and became a mess he wasn't happy with. I believe Dave has the amp right now and is trying to breath life back in to it, Dave and I have talked about it as well. Ed even told me personally as he stood 2 feet away that this was "the" amp and the only amp he used up until F.U.C.K for recording. Now why would Ed lie to me when he was trusting me to restore the amp back to it's original condition, he told me everything he could remember.
I still have all voltages notes and scribbles in my old groove tube book. When I asked about what he did to pump it up for more gain he didn't really remember except that he probably had the Echoplex goosing it, turned the light dimmer down (variac) until the pilot light started to go out or dimm when you hit a single note (85~90V). I believe the amp also had a standby jack in the back that disconnected the power tube cathodes. Now please understand me... when ED played through this amp in my shop it sounded EVERY bit like Ed and the first albums with and without the Variac. When I played thru it it sounded every bit like me (cry). Bottom line is Ed tired of less gain and wanted more, I think that amp sounded great back then but Ed was trying to move on. On F.U.C.K he used my Preamp for many of the tracks as well as a SLO100 for solo's , that is the time I was working with him, 90~92. Everything JTM100 says is spot on as far as the engineer, room and specifics of the recording and mix are EVERYTHING here. Ed would make any decent amp sound like Ed. If you heard the dry clips from the original recordings like many of us have you would hear so much was done in the production side.

Dave or I are both capable of making a reproduction for you but if you don't play like Ed did back then and don't slap whatever he did in front back in the day then you wont get too far. This is not a friendly bedroom amp, it is loud, not as dirty as you think and in your face.
__________________
John Suhr-President JS Technologies Inc - Suhr Guitars - CAA Amplifiers - CAE Cabinets "

[rgorke]

So I just wasted most of the morning skimming that entire thread. What amazes me is that people won't believe those who have talked to Ed directly, looked at the amp, worked on the amp, dissected the amp, but will believe hearsay like it is gospel.

Nitro continues to quote people who he says he talked to about the amp but won't believe people who have seen it and worked on it.

I personally really appreciate the input from John Suhr, Dave Friedman and Peter Thorn, among others. They have more patience and thicker skin than I do to put up with being called a liar. We know who John, Dave, and Pete are but don't know who Nitro is or NFB is.

Ugh.

Anyhoo, have a good Saturday.

[bob barcus]

Its All just to keep make'n money for these guys.Look what Ed use's now last last 20 yrs Only because JMP don't give Free amps. If you gave me Eds rig in 1978 I still wouldn't sound like VH-1.My son would but I would still beRock Blues player Bob

[leadguy]

"untouched except for filter caps and 1 added part which I prefer to keep to myself (Dave knows it well of course too). It is a very minor addition that Jose did giving it a slight bit more bass in the treble channel, when Ed demo'd the amp for me he dimmed every control. The circuit other than that was STOCK.... BUT !! it was not the every day Normal circuit, there were a few oddball parts that Marshall did use from time to time. Not every Marshall follows the schematics.

The 2 non typical parts in this amp contribute to the gain in a very minor way. They were not major parts and the amp Already had the 680n at the cathode of the cathode follower."


So Ed's white knob amp has the mid boosting 680n capacitor and it sounds like it.

[vh junkie]

Yes he did say the .68 uf was on the cathode follower

is a very minor addition that Jose did giving it a slight bit more bass in the treble channel

This is the one that bugs me a little... the supposed pic of ed's amp and the 5153 schematic show a small first stage output coupler (a blue 750 pf to a 1000 pf), this would restrict bass in the first channel. Of course we never were sure what those pics were really of...

[Good Guest]

You would think if it was STOCK there would be no problems with a simple pic of the guts.... The whole guitar world will be happy and everyone would go back to their STOCK plexi's and dig in till there fingers bled. Wondering how the hell he can do finger tapping on such a low gain amp.

Now if it wasn't STOCK and you wanted to mislead and sway people who are getting close to it ..you would do exactly what they are doing. You would have all these paid techs under your vh camp belt claiming a stock amp and providing no evidence. Kinda like government.

More bass in the treble channell only....hmmm rules out anything from the cathode follower on. Anyone care to speculate?

I'd guess a .022 instead of the typical .0022 in the treble ch.

or a differant value bright cap on the treble volume. Anyone else?

[leadguy]

What I meant is that in amongst my ramblings from sometime in the last month I said that Ed's main amp (white knob) would have to have mid boosting capacitors because that's what it sounds like to me.

A Plexi with strong mids that Ed liked.

John Suhr mentioned the mid boosting 680n .68uf mid boosting capacitor on the white knob Plexi and that makes total sense to me that it would be there.

A Bass circuit with no mid boosting capacitors would have it's EQ pitched too low for most of VH1 IMO and would take a fair bit of external EQing to be like a mid boosted circuit but even then it would not sound the same as a mid boosted circuit being the core amp tone.