Matthias Jabs (Scorpions)

[Tone Slinger]

I agree, Michael Schenker, from like Ufo's 'Obsession' to his work on 'LoveDrive' , was VERY brown. Jabs work on 'Lovedrive' was also very brown. Rudolph played the leads in 'Alway's Somewhere', as well as the main solo in the middle of 'Coast To Coast'.

The Scorpions continued to use Celestion 25 watt loaded cabs, throughout the '80's. Michael Schenker, like MOST other musicians, seemed to have started using the 65 watt celestions by his first solo record. His tone , imo, didnt sound nearly as good on his early to mid '80's solo stuff, as it did in the mid to late '70's. The 25 watt speakers werent produced from like '79 to '88.

[Tone Slinger]

So the 'transformer Killer' was the power supply unit that they brought to the states with them to run thier amps at the European 220v. That makes perfect sense. I recently read that Jabs no longer owns the curly maple top 1959 Les Paul that he used on 'No One Like You' and 'Arizona' . Man, he has his own guitar shop with signature models, as well as being famous as a awesome guitarist in an AWESOME band. I bet he got a pretty penny for it

[awangotango]

animal magnetism thru blackout. Tone and tunes. what's it's all about ! I've tried long and hard to get those tones and get real close but in the end to really nail blackout you have to source some of the fender rebranded tubes of the era which someone already mentioned were probably the tungsrams and i'd concur. They have that unique upper midrange that blackout in particular sounds like to me. Animal mag and lovedrive could be a different setup but it's the 1777 blackbacks on lovedrive fo sure and either old 25W M's or the 65 watters on the other albums imo. That tone will never be heard again. Sad.

[Tone Slinger]

Also, thier use of filtering a wha wha played a part in that tone distinction they had. I used to think it was just alot of thier solo tones, but I really hear it in thier rhythm as well. They just had more tightness and eq distinction than lone cranked 1987's could impart.

[awangotango]

that might explain why i couldn't quite get that tone. I never tried/use/own a wah.

[Tone Slinger]

They had a very unique way of using the wha. I'd be interested in checking out old photo's of thier stage rigs.I'm thinking that 'maybe' Matthias and Rudolph had the wha in between the high and low inputs of thier 1987's ? Like jumpering channels with the wha in between. That way, they could dial its effect back a bit and better 'blend' it into thier overall tone. I was always unable to duplicate thier tone by simply running it up front the standard way. By listening to lots of boots, it seems that even they werent 100% consistant with getting 'That Sound' with thier use of them either.I remember both of them saying that the old VOX's were the shit, but they quit working alot, resulting in them having to use crybaby's.

[awangotango]

a wah in between the inputs is interesting idea. some guys used the boss 10 band or the echoplex that way?

Wasn't blackout engineered by dieter dirks who also did accept' metal heart'/ unbelievable production on a lot of the albums old dieter was involved in. the first dokken recorded in dieter's basement studio in Germany still has George's most killer tone to my ears. '71 superlead into quality analog recording gear. In any cae I love dieter's work. My 2nd fav engineer after martin birch and third maybe wyn davis. We forget how much a good producer and engineer influence they used to have.

[garbeaj]

That whole cocked wah thing was all Michael Schenker. If Rudolf or Matthias used a cocked wah, it was because of Michael doing it first as far as I can tell.

[Tone Slinger]

Thats most likely true Allen. It seems that Michael messed with the cocked wha thing very early on (Lonesome Crow era), but only actually recorded a few solo's (like one or two per album, excepting 'Lights Out' which was 3/4ths of the solo's) with UFO. Uli Jon Roth though, was filtering a wha on 1/2 to 3/4 of ALL the solo's he played in the Scorpions. By the time Matthias joined, your right, that cocked wha thing was 'Standard operating Procedure' concerning Scorpions guitar tone.

Awangotango, I totally agree, Lynch's best tone was on that first Dokken album. He said Rory Galligher was tracking some stuff there as well (Dierks studio) and gave him (George) some nice praise and compliments, cause George said he was getting a bit stiffled working on that first Dokken album, and Rory was like "You are playing and sounding great, just keep it loose" or something like that.. George said he hit the front of the Marshall with some sort of a treble booster. So crunchy, warm and RAW, loved it !

I will also include Tom Allom in the mix concerning tone (didnt he engineer too ?) I love what he did for Priest as well as the Krokus album 'Head Hunters'.

[awangotango]

headhunter rips no doubt ! but all those early krokus lps do !

in both cases (treble booster and wah) it was used sparingly/low levels. I can get 95% or scorps or breaking the chains with just an early metal panel. On treble boosters, I've played with them and they really are just a modest boost that actually lessens treble, or at least smears and smooths it. One of my favorite tones where those gotten on the first 2 heavy pettin LP's,both which used plexis pushed by rangemasters. The first lp was produced by brian may, which is who suggested they use them. They get EXATLY the same tone george got on LP 1. A clean tone but with saturation and balls,

I can't believe I care about this stuff when the sky is being sprayed- but it is a distraction.

[awangotango]

Damn I love the tone and tunes on the first two mcauley schenker LP/Tours !!!! unreal

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfw7HSi524Q[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNM4wntQxDc[/youtube]

[awangotango]

.......and of course chris tsangarides and his production here is a highwater mark of craftsmanship. Dave used a '74 SL and the rhythm git maybe something older..........
black n blue S/T
the rods S/T
Coney hatch S/T
etc

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ZJ1NEWJmQ[/youtube]



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF6yFY2ziUs[/youtube]



the point is, and I could cite dozens' more, that the late 70's/early 80's had tons of killer albums with tone, AND THEY ALL SOUNDED DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER. Today it sounds the same from album to album. I asked the lead singer from coney hatch about their S/T album and he mentioned to me that the room was a big part of the sound, it was concrete/stucco and he could hear it all over the album...the point is perfect anechoic rooms and perfectly tuned guitars make for boring/forumulaic sound....


"That first album was recorded over the winter of '81-'82, so it was all a long time ago. I agree
with you that we captured something unique in those sounds and especially the performances. In terms of the gear, you may be surprised to learn that the majority of Steve Shelski's playing was done on an old Telecaster through aMarshall 100, whichever model was current in the late 70's-early 80's. I had a couple of different Les Paul's, one a '75 reissue goldtop, the other a
new white custom that Kim Mitchell gave me for a while. I was playing through a Hiwatt 50-watt head into a Marshall 4x12. We didn't use pedals for tracking. Almost all effects were applied in the mixing stage. One thing we did do(and this was Kim's influence) was to audition lots of different Marshall cabinets to get the punchiest, truest sound possible. It doesn't take speakers
very long to sound "rizzy" and worn out and we quickly discovered that speaker cabs that we'd been using on the road were completely unacceptable for good recordingtones. I was surprised how easy it was to hear the tonal change between newspeakers and those which had only been used for about 50 hours.We were
always bringing in fresh cabinets every few days. One last thing which had an impact was the room mics. We were in an odd sort of studio that had plaster stucco and wood walls and I can hear that room tone all over that album even now.
Hope this helps you get closer to your own "ideal tone" All the best, Carl Dixon


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVhtF3oH1_Q[/youtube]

[awangotango]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CM6EdBDmow[/youtube]


and ALLIED FORCES produced by the band themselves ! killer tones.

[Tone Slinger]

Cool stuff , good read there ! I also agree about the bigger picture. I really hate getting caught up in the game of the corupt and greedy. Ive been wanting to get my ' GRIZZLY ADAMS' on for some time. I have cut most of my puppet strings off already. Just have a few more to go

[awangotango]

I swear I hear a treble booster on blackout? either that or matthihas has got just the right combo of tubes for that amp