Slaving is quite damn awesome.

[julkke]

Kickass blix! You make that bugera sound better than a lot of the NOS part spot on copies of the originals here! Great stuff!

WTF dude This is not TGP. And stop buying shit from china.

Haha...

[johnnybgoood]

This thread caught my attention for a couple of reasons. Firstly, for the quality of Blix's near silent recording and secondly for the statement below.

Using a quality line-out-box like the CAE I use, or the very similar Suhr , there's absolutely no reason to use speaker simulation, it will ruin the tone.

There must be something in Blix's configuration that causes the line out tone to be enhanced. Regardless of Van Halen's great tone he still needed to use Palmer speaker simulators early on to enhance his wet rig. The Palmer can be seen in his rack in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuSRGheqAjk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. This mystery caused me to go hunting for answers. Blix posted a picture of his line out box at the following link http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2699/450 ... eee1_o.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The Gear Page thread is here http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... ?p=8135592" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I believe the quality of Blix's line out sound, aside from his chops, is the inductor in series with the Alpha Linear 5K Volume Pot and the resistor (33k???Value). The configuration allows for a more natural sounding speaker tone.

Can anyone identify the inductor, mounted with Hot Melt Glue, used if possible? This would help everyone out by eliminating the use of a speaker simulator in their rigs.

[Blix]

That's really interesting Johnnybgood, but I'm quite sure Ed used the unfiltered output on the Palmer.
But I'll open the cae tonight and see what I can find

[vanhalen5150]

That vid: " In the studio, I just use 1 cab and 1 head, the effects are added after in the mix".

[Blix]

That vid: " In the studio, I just use 1 cab and 1 head, the effects are added after in the mix".

Yeah I think he always recorded his Marshall that way.

[Strat78]

That vid: " In the studio, I just use 1 cab and 1 head, the effects are added after in the mix".

...that little drawer with the "goofie stuff", is where it is at, even he still knew it (though, at the lowest point of his tone quest).

[dirtycooter]

This is true about the palmer
You do NOT need it with certain power amps.
I use mine with the filter ON but thats what works with my crown.

When I used just the lineout into a Randall RH100's power section as a slave the c.a.e. lineout box was all I needed. But note also the Randall utilizes mosfets set up similar to a class a/b guitar tube amp like the Matrix.
The lineout box is simple to build and I have a c.a.e.

Pros
the lineout box is not an active piece of gear. No gain circuitry. Just simple level attenuation that passive.
so you will get no hiss.

But
the palmer has a super slight hiss because its an active unit-at least the pga05. But its so negligible. So faint it don't matter.
But it also serves as an active splitter in straight lineout mode or filtered lineout mode. So not only does it have both a raw unfiltered lineout that splits it can also have a split filtered signal. Meaning it will drive two separate fx units post amp.

One could just use two lineout boxes though for a second feed post amp feed though too.


But something happems between a guitar power amp and the speaker. I believe it happens on the damping side of the current or negative feedback of the current. Most P.A. amps just push that power out there and thats it. The mosfet type seem to interact naturally giving hi and lo damping like a guitar tube power section.

The filter of the palmer sounds natural using p.a. typical amps. It rolls the hi and lo frequencies off. Like a guitar speaker would do. You hear 20-20000 khz. Guitar speakers only generally go down to 75 hz on bottom and around 5-6k on top. So the top and bottom frequencies are rolled off into infinity.
p.a. amps in general seem to push the speaker into producing extended lo and hi frequencies for some reason and past their limits-most of the extended hi end is what sounds like ass. Its lime instead of a greenback your hooked up to a full range hifi speaker in a p.a. monitor. Harsh brittle top end.

For some reason only mosfet amps in a certain circuit interact with the speakers natural range limiting capabilities.
While its still flat response amp-it don't push the speaker past its natural frequency ability.
I can use p.a. speaks for wet side and dial them into lofi guitar speaker land with the palmer.
Lineout box will not do this though. But that was the intended purpose of the palmer-analog speaker simulation. Or should I say "guitar speaker" simulation would be a better term.

The secret is the top and bottom end rolloff. You can do it with palmer, or get it with an amp that "works with and interacts with" the speaker.

[dirtycooter]

Another note also
When it comes to say using a delay in a separate slaved cab..
I can taylor the fidelity of that delay. I can make it really lofi or match the original tone. I can cut its bottom end boominess or lighten it up. Brighter or darker, fatter or thinner. And that allows me to get more range of sounds than average joe does from the same effect. I can dial just about anything in perfectly so it sits well with the dry tone. And to me thats a huge advantage.
Far beyond an e.q.'s capability.
The matrix will offer rolloff of top and bottom at the speakers natural limits offering that one set sound. But its the natural one.

I have pics of my c.a.e.'s guts someplace. I will have to dig them out. Box is pretty simple.

[Blix]

This thread caught my attention for a couple of reasons. Firstly, for the quality of Blix's near silent recording and secondly for the statement below.

Using a quality line-out-box like the CAE I use, or the very similar Suhr , there's absolutely no reason to use speaker simulation, it will ruin the tone.

There must be something in Blix's configuration that causes the line out tone to be enhanced. Regardless of Van Halen's great tone he still needed to use Palmer speaker simulators early on to enhance his wet rig. The Palmer can be seen in his rack in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuSRGheqAjk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. This mystery caused me to go hunting for answers. Blix posted a picture of his line out box at the following link http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2699/450 ... eee1_o.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The Gear Page thread is here http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... ?p=8135592" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I believe the quality of Blix's line out sound, aside from his chops, is the inductor in series with the Alpha Linear 5K Volume Pot and the resistor (33k???Value). The configuration allows for a more natural sounding speaker tone.

Can anyone identify the inductor, mounted with Hot Melt Glue, used if possible? This would help everyone out by eliminating the use of a speaker simulator in their rigs.

Cracked it open again, the "inductor" is the transformer. The resistor is 21k.

[catalin gramada]

This thread caught my attention for a couple of reasons. Firstly, for the quality of Blix's near silent recording and secondly for the statement below.

Using a quality line-out-box like the CAE I use, or the very similar Suhr , there's absolutely no reason to use speaker simulation, it will ruin the tone.

There must be something in Blix's configuration that causes the line out tone to be enhanced. Regardless of Van Halen's great tone he still needed to use Palmer speaker simulators early on to enhance his wet rig. The Palmer can be seen in his rack in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuSRGheqAjk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. This mystery caused me to go hunting for answers. Blix posted a picture of his line out box at the following link http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2699/450 ... eee1_o.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The Gear Page thread is here http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... ?p=8135592" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I believe the quality of Blix's line out sound, aside from his chops, is the inductor in series with the Alpha Linear 5K Volume Pot and the resistor (33k???Value). The configuration allows for a more natural sounding speaker tone.

Can anyone identify the inductor, mounted with Hot Melt Glue, used if possible? This would help everyone out by eliminating the use of a speaker simulator in their rigs.

Hi
those resistor is a must as you need to tame the voltage into 1-40v range without be forced to use just the end of the pot for low voltage input level. an 1: 10 raport is pretty optimal for that , so a 47 K resistor seems to be K in conjunction with a 5 k pot. The placement of resistor before the pot and not in wiper is also corect.
Regard those "inductor" as you ask think it is pretty much a line transformer for isolation condition...my oppinion.
Catalin

later edit : sorry Blix seem to post in same time. Nice recording
Cheers

[johnnybgoood]

Blix, Catalin, thanks for the info! Can you offer a value for the line transformer?

[Blix]

Blix, Catalin, thanks for the info! Can you offer a value for the line transformer?

The only thing written on it is: secondary 10k CT"


And Dirtycooter, thanks for the insight on the Palmer.

[catalin gramada]

Jensen made the finest line transformers on the planet for this kind of aplications. are not cheapest at all but worth it. you can find electrical specs on their site. in my opinion it is one 1:1 ratio 10 k impedance as Blix said. Thanks for info.
I don.t think the line transformer have some improvements in sound but definitely is a useful component against noise grounding issues.

Catalin

[johnnybgoood]

Edcor manufactures transformers for $7 that may be suitable for line out boxes. The PC10k-10k has a frequency response of 20Hz to 20KHz. I bought a couple for testing. There is no magnetic shield. However, since this audio transformer is for reamping it should test well, if not great, for guitar frequencies. I won't be plugging into a mic preamp. If I was I probably would have purchased either a Jenson or a Hammond.

See attached drawing. It depicts a box with both phase and ground switches.

[stef]