EVH plexi observation....

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Ralle
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Re: EVH plexi observation....

Post by Ralle » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:39 am

jnew wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:12 am
A lot of info there but I follow you. You basically are running your Plaap/Chris spec into the Master PA and have yet to try the Friedman spec that way. I agree that Plaap spec puts the amp right into that EQ slope zone but find that the low end seems to get away from being nice and punctual. Funny balance there. But re-amping does do some wonders in that area.
The Friedman speqs WITH the same master as the PA head has... that's what I think could "save" that sound... the white knob would potentinally be just that... And then run it thrue the PA head...

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Re: EVH plexi observation....

Post by jnew » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:53 pm

I got ya now. 👍 I’ll be sure to save these notes as it may take me a little time. I’m going to build a new amp for this purpose. A 3 in one type deal. Super Bass spec, Master PA and pure clean tube power amp. Like you kind of brought up early on. 😁
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Re: EVH plexi observation....

Post by Tazin » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:17 pm

Ralle wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:22 pm
Here's what Mark Cameron said about the amp:
" (1) By Mark Cameron by pictures taken in the early 80'S.
There ARE small tone altering and/or gain altering mods.
I do have pic's so I CAN physically see that the amp has a split cathode arrangement.
...the cap on v2(330uf) cathode.
...its a 2.7k/.68 and the resistor looks like the stock part(but I don't think it is)but the cap is one of those yellow square type from the 70' Marshall's. From the circuit card It looks like it came stock with this arrangement. The post that is pressed in looks stock too witch tells me more than anyone could.In the pics the serial # is 12301. "

No wonder why there's so much confusion about it... everybody claims THE amp had the serial nr 12301, but this amp Mark talks about does not get the sound, unless that white knob theory does the trick, being a simular master as the PA head has... if it doesn't, well, then the 12301 scenario is just a big scam... I wonder what serial nr the Plaap/Chris C. amp had?
The Plaap/Chris C. amp was witnessed in 1980...
It is interesting that there are two different circuits attached to Ed's 12301 amp based on "eye witness" accounts...On one side you've got reputable techs such as Cameron, Suhr, and Friedman who all claim 12301 was a split cathode design and on the opposite side you've got the reputable Chris M who says shared cathode design. Chris was one of the first to mention the amp specs back in the late 90s (around 1997-1998 I believe). This Plaap guy never seen the amp but was supposed to talk with Peter Van "whatchamacallit"; who supposedly rebuilt the amp back in the 90s; since Plaap lived about an hour away from Peter's shop. Plaap never stated; to the best of my knowledge, that he was ever able to get in touch with Peter since he claimed Peter was difficult to get ahold of. Anyhow, Plaap specs were verbatum of what Chris has stated over the years and even Chris mentioned on a few occations that this Plaap was a shyster and just out for recognition. In my book I don't even consider Plaap a "contributor" since he just re-hashed Chris's info.

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Post by plexified » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:55 am

Whats up Everybody !l

Those chocolate caps are old Cornel Dubilier. I've used them. They are clear and transparent like Sprauge 715 orange drops.

Here is a great vid that demos the Jbl and the Greenbacks that were recorded often. Remember the raw tracks??? Yep this is a good example to blow the mind.

Also , check out the specs on the latest EVH 'eruption' axe. Its got the frank PU with 14.4k specs. Whats that? That's the Duncan Custom Custom. If you are not a fan of the alnico II mag, swap an Alnico V for more bite.

Ralle, what feedback resistor are you running?
Jnew , cool to hear your gonna build it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGSw7jB_0Kg

Getting ready for a cap job on my 12er, what filter brand are you guys using?

Peace, Plexified

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Re: EVH plexi observation....

Post by jnew » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:25 am

What’s been going on? Scored a 69 Super Trem this morning so that will be slightly tinkered to serve that Master PA purpose to experiment with. No permanent changes of course.

I usually find the Blue Erie Caps and keep it all vintage. Only had one that ever leaked slightly but even it worked until I found a replacement. ROE are excellent and look really cool too. I assume your 12 is low filter values. You know, before it went to all 50uF cans.
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Re: EVH plexi observation....

Post by Ralle » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:13 pm

Oh, it varies from time to time... right now I have 27k in there, it feels more right... one might think you loose the gain, but to me it's more of getting it in the right spots... One thing though, I heard the JBL/Greenback clips... and I have to say you can't be without that combo for VH 1... it did so much more than I thought it would... cool :shock:

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Re: EVH plexi observation....

Post by jnew » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:33 pm

I agree that there is a bold audible difference between the two, and that the combination is indeed pretty wicked. I would be interested in knowing if it is a 50/50 or 60/40 or 75/25, etc. But beyond all that, I'm all about what's going on to get either of those speakers to sound as we hear them, regardless of what isolated speaker trac we are listening to. Yes, the speakers are the ultimate and final filters but they behave the way they do because of the stuff we are REALLY chase. Make sense? 8)
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Re: EVH plexi observation....

Post by Tazin » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:11 pm

plexified wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:55 am
Whats up Everybody !l

Those chocolate caps are old Cornel Dubilier. I've used them. They are clear and transparent like Sprauge 715 orange drops.

Here is a great vid that demos the Jbl and the Greenbacks that were recorded often. Remember the raw tracks??? Yep this is a good example to blow the mind.

Also , check out the specs on the latest EVH 'eruption' axe. Its got the frank PU with 14.4k specs. Whats that? That's the Duncan Custom Custom. If you are not a fan of the alnico II mag, swap an Alnico V for more bite.

Ralle, what feedback resistor are you running?
Jnew , cool to hear your gonna build it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGSw7jB_0Kg

Getting ready for a cap job on my 12er, what filter brand are you guys using?

Peace, Plexified
For new manufacture filter caps I stick with F&T. For reformed filter caps I go with LCR and Erie.

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Post by MrBeasty » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:19 pm

plexified wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:55 am
Also , check out the specs on the latest EVH 'eruption' axe. Its got the frank PU with 14.4k specs. Whats that? That's the Duncan Custom Custom. If you are not a fan of the alnico II mag, swap an Alnico V for more bite.

Peace, Plexified
All the resistance tell you is that there are a lot of wire in the thing. The Voltage output of the pick-up is not exclusively tied to that value. The magnet comes into the picture just as much. The Frankenstein pick-up is high resistance but has a weakened magnet so it does even-out a little. In fact IMHO, it is way weaker than the EVH Wolfgang pick-up which rates around 13.5K.
jnew wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:33 pm
I agree that there is a bold audible difference between the two, and that the combination is indeed pretty wicked. I would be interested in knowing if it is a 50/50 or 60/40 or 75/25, etc. But beyond all that, I'm all about what's going on to get either of those speakers to sound as we hear them, regardless of what isolated speaker trac we are listening to. Yes, the speakers are the ultimate and final filters but they behave the way they do because of the stuff we are REALLY chase. Make sense? 8)
The ultimate filter would be the transducer that plays the recording to your ears. Before that there would be the transducer that picks-up the sound source (the mic (SM-57)/pre-amp (Urei 1108), etc.) but I get what you meant, the speaker is the last element to shape the sound from the amplifier.

When I experimented with D-120s a few years ago, I did not find the JBL to sound vastly different from a Celestion GB, except for a bump around 7Khz. Which you could easily simulate with an EQ applied to a GB.
My $0.02!

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Re: EVH plexi observation....

Post by jnew » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:54 pm

Wasn’t talking about recording techniques, recording equipment, post production, etc. That stuff doesn’t affect how the speaker behaves. Only can manipulate after the behavior. You know what I meant.

A pickups output is probably better measured in Volts. Or actually millivolts. Magnet strength, peak resonances and Eddie currents play into this in terms of output and tone.
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Re: EVH plexi observation....

Post by MrBeasty » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:50 pm

jnew wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:54 pm
A pickups output is probably better measured in Volts. Or actually millivolts. Magnet strength, peak resonances and Eddie currents play into this in terms of output and tone.
Totally! ... Resistance is ... futile! :palm:

The pick-up is important but it is also a wild goose chase considering the miles of cable EVH used. You saw the Club Days photos, the VH1 tour photos, and the VH2 session photos. Lots and lots and LOTS of cable ... and non True-Bypass circuits of the various the filters/EQ, Echoplexes, etc. by the time you get to the end of all that I don't know how much of the pick-up signal really remains. A bright PAF, certainly wasn't bright anymore.

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Re: EVH plexi observation....

Post by dirtycooter » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:14 pm

Exactly Beasty!
Eds signal path in front was technically a tonal dive tone robber to a degree.
But its also the old school buffers of those pedals that were part of the charm of it all.
A good buffer today is far and away much more geared toward the tone preserving ideal we think about.
Back then it wasn't thought of at all nor were they quiet or ideal really in this regard. Or true bypass.
You stacked pedals and fx serially and gobs of cable and you simply got what you got.
Thats the way it was and you liked it. Dana Carvey's grumpy old man skit comes to mind here.
Same thing with the hendrix chain. It was the order and type of fx to get there.
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Re: EVH plexi observation....

Post by MrBeasty » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:11 pm

Warren Haynes is a guy with stellar tone, and he purposely uses 40 feet of cable as a tone shaping tool.
I should try it sometime.

https://youtu.be/4hgaBKNGVDs?t=3m45s

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Re: EVH plexi observation....

Post by Roe » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:11 am

yes, adding a cap does not sound the same as an old, long cable with plenty of capacitance. The treble peak of the pickups will be lowered into the mid region by both yet they sound different
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