DR Z Airbrake

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:48 am

Hey sabor. Really Im not trying to convince anyone to use the stuff I like. We kind of hyjacked the thread a bit for the UA. Sorry about that

I cant really say anything about the Air Brake because I havent tried it. But All attenuators like the AB, PB, MASS and HP IMO are only really valuable for taking the edge off. Getting your stage volume reasonable. When you get into the medium range (-12db to -16dbs) I prefer the MASS to the HP and I owned them both at the same time. But I think all these things do an OK at best job at really low volumes. In the grnd scheme of things Id prefer none of them but their a necessary evil

saborthw · Post by **saborthw** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:58 pm

Dan,

I have had only master volume amps, TSL 122 and Mesa stiletto when I jump into the world of non master volume amps I want the best sound possible at lower volumes. since I live in a condo and usually Plexis and condos don't mix. You seem to understand the differences between the different attenuators, I am just trying to benefit from your experience and not re invent the wheel. I appriciate your input and your wealth of knowlage regarding Plexis.

Thanks

Scott

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:44 pm

Tell me about it. Ive been in the same situation. Even 1watt amps are too loud for me to crank. For what its worth I think youll do yourself a favor making sure whatever attenuator you use has a line out. That stuff I was talking to SBmonster abuot is probably the best way to get real low volume stuff. Basically with the line out your taking the entire output signal and loading it with the attenuator for zero speaker signal. The only thing left is a small line signal which you reamplify with a small SS amp. You already have all the tube tone you want since you taped tha output signal. You took a small sample of that (the Line Out) and you want to reamplify it as clearly and uncolored as possible. Low wattage and low efficiency speakers are good for this aas well since speaker responce is always a problem at low volume with any type of volume control. I always wanted to build a good low volume cab. Never got around to it.

I actually just talked to Tris at Songworks via email yesterday and today to ask him about this. His amps are basically like Marshalls with 12AX7 tubes for power tubes so their low wattage as is. But he loads that small output signal and reamplifies it with a SS amp. They can get pretty loud to considering those amps are very tiny. I figured since he designed a small SS poweramp to do exactly what I like to do he may be a good person to ask and he does sell just poweramp versions though without and enclosure. You have to find a good enclosure to put it in apparently.

saborthw · Post by **saborthw** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:15 am

Thanks Dan, Ill check out that site

Scott :

SB Monster · Post by **SB Monster** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:24 pm

Guys, was away for a few days. Dan's on the money. The sound of seakers being pushed is what you can't recreate. It's half your sound. A pal of mine has a corford harlequin combo, he put a celestion alnico blue 15w speaker in it and it sounds just great at low volumes. More honest than my attenuated ( well UA'd dan

) 100W marshall. I think a low efficiency speaker and any attenuator would be the way to go Scott!

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:33 pm

More honest than my attenuated ( well UA'd dan ) 100W marshall

Hell its all attenuation in a strict sense.

If I ever had the extra dough Id probably get a weber Blue Dog AlNiCo or Silver Bell AlNiCo at 15W. I could swear I remember years back Weber offered some of those speakers at 10W. Talk about low volume breakup. I cant believe noone has decided to start a business around making low efficiency low wattage speakers for home players.

saborthw · Post by **saborthw** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:26 pm

Thanks for the Idea I can try taking the line out of the attenuator going into my 100 watt ss monitor amp & Hafler studio monitors. They have a flat response and will not color the sound. this is a great Idea
however not very traditional. This very well could solve my low volume
quandry and avoid pissing off the neighbors for 2 blocks.( if the tone is good ) For recording I can Mic the monitor when I record at home then add cabinet emulation in Protools again not very traditional but could be very cool.

Bonus time will be coming soon ......

Regards

Scott

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:09 am

I was cruzing around this forum and someone posted a link to the Motherload Speaker emulator I heard the sound clips ... amazing to say the least. It is pricey at 869.00

but if it I get results like those MP3 s
worth every penny and direct recording and backline capabilities any any volume

This may be the way to go

Scott

http://www.motherloadusa.com/motherload ... x_home.asp

bluefuzzguitar · Post by **bluefuzzguitar** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:38 am

Dan, Paul,

DBII uses V30's. I use them too and love them! I have V10's in both my Fender Super Reverbs and have come to appreciate the 60w rating as the ideal wattage for me. Enough to stay tight when pushed without sounding sterile.

As for the UA, I own a Super Ultimate Attenuator (glad to see you're also an UA user, Paul!). My SUA has a 300w power tranny so it can handle the full power of my Super Bass. I owned a Hotplate before the SUA and the SUA is sooooooooo much better, especially at lower volumes as Dan remarked. The interesting thing about extreme attenuation settings with the SUA is that it sounds great at home, so much so that it can cause you to be overly confident that sound will also hold up in a band setting, only to find out that it sounds like ass in a band, even if the entire band is at low volume. I'm sure Dan won't be surprised when he reads this because that's been his point all along with any attenuator. Once you get past the level where the speakers are no longer pushed in any significant way (on the SUA anywhere down from the volume at 11 o'clock), you'll get a different frequency response coming from the speakers, causing them to sound 'flatter', 'deader', less inspiring. This is particularly important for retaining the character of your amp sound in a band setting. It's a problem that can't be solved other than just turning up. I guess I should count myself lucky to have an attenuator that continues to sound transparent even at very extreme settings, at home at least.

I disagree with you, Paul, about the plexi switch. I actually love that switch and I have it on all the time, no matter what level of attenuation I'm using. I find it adds some sweet upper-mid harmonics that are lacking otherwise since the SUA sounds fairly dark without this switch. It's a good approximation of the metallic clang plexis have at full bore. Maybe you should give it another try with this in mind, Paul!

Mike

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:45 am

Anonymous wrote:I was cruzing around this forum and someone posted a link to the Motherload Speaker emulator I heard the sound clips ... amazing to say the least. It is pricey at 869.00 but if it I get results like those MP3 s
worth every penny and direct recording and backline capabilities any any volume

This may be the way to go

Scott

http://www.motherloadusa.com/motherload ... x_home.asp

Yeah but thats just a load+DI. As far as I know you cant use that to play through unless you go DI into the mains or a computer or mixer. I listened to those clips a while back and it seemed interesting to be able to record with but as a live tool its expensive for what would only be a load if you can even use the load indepndantly. If you just go DI with it thats great but I dont like that.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:51 am

bluefuzzguitar wrote:Dan, Paul,

DBII uses V30's. I use them too and love them! I have V10's in both my Fender Super Reverbs and have come to appreciate the 60w rating as the ideal wattage for me. Enough to stay tight when pushed without sounding sterile.

As for the UA, I own a Super Ultimate Attenuator (glad to see you're also an UA user, Paul!). My SUA has a 300w power tranny so it can handle the full power of my Super Bass. I owned a Hotplate before the SUA and the SUA is sooooooooo much better, especially at lower volumes as Dan remarked. The interesting thing about extreme attenuation settings with the SUA is that it sounds great at home, so much so that it can cause you to be overly confident that sound will also hold up in a band setting, only to find out that it sounds like ass in a band, even if the entire band is at low volume. I'm sure Dan won't be surprised when he reads this because that's been his point all along with any attenuator. Once you get past the level where the speakers are no longer pushed in any significant way (on the SUA anywhere down from the volume at 11 o'clock), you'll get a different frequency response coming from the speakers, causing them to sound 'flatter', 'deader', less inspiring. This is particularly important for retaining the character of your amp sound in a band setting. It's a problem that can't be solved other than just turning up. I guess I should count myself lucky to have an attenuator that continues to sound transparent even at very extreme settings, at home at least.

I disagree with you, Paul, about the plexi switch. I actually love that switch and I have it on all the time, no matter what level of attenuation I'm using. I find it adds some sweet upper-mid harmonics that are lacking otherwise since the SUA sounds fairly dark without this switch. It's a good approximation of the metallic clang plexis have at full bore. Maybe you should give it another try with this in mind, Paul!

Mike

Thats what I want the thing for. Home playing. But I do already have the mass which has a nice clear Line Out and Im thinking of just getting that Songworks poweramp which is tiny to replace the bulky one Im using now. If I got the UA tahts $550 since Id probably want at least 2 options. I just dont thinkg I could swing that any time soon for that. I think the problem at higher volumes (this was just speculation on my part earlier but its nice to hear a confirmation) is the same problem with all SS amps when you crank them. They are all a bit flat sounding but it seems most apparent when you turn them up. They sound great down low.

SB Monster · Post by **SB Monster** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:00 pm

Dan, Scott, that pal of mine with the cornford. he just uses it for playing at home and messing around with home recording. He lives in an appartment so noise is an issue and it works very well for him ( LP player as well )
The UA is great for home playing and Mike is right about the home vs. band setting, happened to me before. I don't take for granted any more that what sounds good at home will automatically sound better live. You just can't compensate for the sound of speakers being pushed.
The UA plexi switch mmmm, can't seem to get on with it at all. I think it's OTT, almost sounds to me like a speaker has blown, I think it adds too much rattly fizz to the sound, but the next blues type gig I do, I'm gonna give it another go. maybe I'll like it. I never knew that db2 used V30's, always assumed that there was some kind of vintage speaker magic goin on there, I put the v30's in the cab yesterday and they sound great so far but I expect it'll take a while for them to break in and sound their best.

Paul

bluefuzzguitar · Post by **bluefuzzguitar** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:48 pm

Doyle uses V30's, all right. He mentions that in an interview with Guitar Player magazine right after he'd cut Welcome in 2001. I tried locating the article for you on the web but couldn't. GP mag don't have it their archives anymore either.

Paul, the V30's probably sound a little too tight 'n bright right now. They'll loosen and sweeten up over time. I like the way the upper-mid emphasis of the V30's offsets the dark character of my Super Bass. It's a perfect match IMO.

As for the plexi switch on the UA, it sounds like maybe I have a different design plexi switch. Mine is not fizzy-sounding at all. Rather, it adds more character to the otherwise slightly flat-sounding SS amp in the UA. That's why I have it on all the time. Anyway, give it a try and see how you like it.

Dan, I have no other experience with attenuators myself other than the Hotplate and the (S)UA. I'm familiar with the Powerbrake, which I thought sucked. I'm sure the Dr Z Air Brake and the Weber Mass 150 are fine too. It took me only one experience with an attenuator (Hotplate) to realize I don't like them sucking away the signal without giving it back. I was lucky enough to have a friend in Germany who found out about the UA and had enough money to order and pay for a bunch of them for his friends. I could even take as long as I wanted to pay him back which was really cool! It was a big investment money-wise but I haven't looked back since. Finally an 'attenuator' which truly satisfies my attenuation needs. I'm happy.

Mike

saborthw · Post by **saborthw** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:04 pm

Sounds like the UA is worthh checking out anyone who uses the UA
have any sound clips ????

Does the UA sound good at really low levels ?

Regards Scott

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:16 pm

Hell yeah. Thats what weve been talking about. I dont know how the UA sounds itself exactly sicne I never had one BUT I do have what is about the exact same kind of setup as the UA. I have a clear simple load with a line out that I run to a SS poweramp which is what the UA is all in one package. Its about the best low volume cranked sound youll get. A normal attenuator cant touch it. Though I had reservations about how it sounds at stage volumes. It seems from these guys it is a real concern. SS amps sound flat at loud volumes but I dont know that it cant sound good. Id just rather use an attenuator in that case though since my MASS sounds very transparent untill it gets to high attenuation levels. IMO if you play mostly at home and you need to really quiet it down normal attenuators just wont cut it. But didnt you say you have a nice monitor poweramp? It may sound almost as good running the line out of an attenuator set as a load to it. Im going on speculation at this point because I dont have a UA. It may be my own setup sounds better but I doubt it since the guy who builds them designs the load, line level tap and SS poweramp specifical for this use. You could also build a simple resistive load with a line out. The only expensive part is that youd need a few 50W arcol power resistors or the like.