ever played a Bogner Shiva?

regotheamigo · Post by **regotheamigo** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:03 pm

It seems like everytime I have my mind made up about an amp something better sounding comes along. These things really smoke. If any of you own one or have played one I would like your honest opinion on what you think.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:17 pm

I owned an XTC. Ive played a Shiva many times. I always thought of it as a cross between a Rectumfrier and a Marshall. Its got the EQ 'shape' of a Marshall but the thick grungy distortion of a Recto. Im not a fan of them. I believe Jerry Cantrell recorded most of the AIC albums with a Shiva. Ive always been about non-master type amps but used channel switching higher gain amps live with bands which Im not crazy about but I dont have much choice. I use an SLO now but I had a Bogner before and it suffered way too much from that flat dynamic multi channel syndrome. I liked where the EQ was centered but the gain was just not for me. Now with the Soldano it suffers from that same thing but much less probably because its not really a channel switcher just a 2203 type circuit with 2 gain stages that can be switched in and out. Its EQ is voiced too bright for me but Ive dealt with that. The Shiva is a lot like the Bogner XTC to me accept it has more of the modern bone crunching drive to it then the XTC which seems to try to do a preamp centered brown sound. Now those are things you overlook if you like channel switching amps or high gain and the Shiva just like the XTC and SLO is one of the few 'preamp centric' drive amps out there done very tastefuly if not my cup of tea. Thats my impression of a Shiva anyway.

Country Boy Shane · Post by **Country Boy Shane** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:00 am

Played and hated it. Billy describes it perfectly. Boutique high-gain is not for me and sounds like ass to my ears. I'll stick to plexi's.

dosmun · Post by **dosmun** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:57 pm

Shivas sound pretty good. They are not a High gain metal amp. I have know a couple of guys that have used them and they were more blues based players. The one guy could get some great Warren Hayes tones with a SG. The Shiva is more of a vintage sounding amp not modern at all.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:16 pm

The first people to play Soldanos were Clapton and Knopfler. That is definitly a high gain amp though those guys didnt play it that way. Those guys you know may dial in a decent bluesy sound with a Shiva, but Ive played those things and they have some gain to them. Same as an SLO and an XTC in that many people dont use it that way buts it capable and most of its drive comes from the preamp. Haynes uses an SLO. Im not sayin some people cant dial in a lower gain sound and make it work for them, but those concerns I posted are definitly real. All the time Ive clocked in with a Shiva the sound I came away from playing with it was a grungy sound. Not a super scooped Dual Recto sound and not as rumbly or fizzy. But just as grungy. Bogners got that thing where all there amps are voiced like a Marshall EQ-wise, but gain-wise their very modern. It didnt surprise me at all to learn that that one Alice in Chains album (I think its the one with Super Jaded, if your familiar) was recorded with a Shiva.

Im not commin down on these types of amps, but out of these types of amps the Shiva wasnt one of my favorites. Ive owned a Bogner XTC and I own an SLO and Im not crazy about either mind you.

Brentsp · Post by **Brentsp** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:47 am

I've owned the Shiva, XTC and Uberschall and the Shiva is a medium gain amp compared to most high gain amps. Its voiced more vintage not modern, but has way more gain than any Superlead. That has to be the first time I've heard the Shiva compared to recto. Jerry Cantrell (AIC) used the Shiva ONLY for his own album "Degradtion Trip". The AIC albums were a combo of Bogner Fish, Bogner moded JCM800s, Recto and a SLO.

BrentSP

Billy · Post by **Billy** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:53 am

Brentsp wrote:I've owned the Shiva, XTC and Uberschall and the Shiva is a medium gain amp compared to most high gain amps. Its voiced more vintage not modern, but has way more gain than any Superlead. That has to be the first time I've heard the Shiva compared to recto. Jerry Cantrell (AIC) used the Shiva ONLY for his own album "Degradtion Trip". The AIC albums were a combo of Bogner Fish, Bogner moded JCM800s, Recto and a SLO.

BrentSP

The Shiva at max gain may only be able to get the same aount of gain as an SLO or XTC at 5-7 but most people never run an SLO or XTC with max gain to achieve a high gain sound. That would be way over the top. Moreso with the SLO. 5-7 on an SLO or XTC and full gain on a Shiva is still a modern amount of gain. Maybe not Godsmack gain but pretty damn high compared to vintage amps. In the 'distortion' catagory instead of the 'overdrive' catagory. Im prety sure most people would consider Degradation Trip high gain if not super high metal gain. The thing that struck me as recto like is the shape of the gain. As Ive said the EQ was very Marshall esque (or vintage voiced as you said) but the shape of the drive was very modern and grungy in that 'thunderous smooth' sound as they call it with the percussive low end same as a Recto. Its a preamp centric amp. The thing I want someone to understand before they get all hyped by HC style reviews and marketing BS is that, as much geared towards a modern meets vintage amp as a Shiva is in advertising and reviews, its still waaaay closer to an XTC, SLO or modern high gain amp (even if it doesnt quite equal the amount of gain) then it is anything like a Super Lead. Its not a vintage marshall with modern features. Its more a modern amp tweaked to sound vintagey. If you want a modern amp with a bit of vintage flavor you may like the Shiva. If your a vintage buff and you dont like XTCs, SLOs, etc... you probably wont like this amp either. It has the same flat dynamic loss, loss of harmonix and complexity as any other modern style or multi channel amp does which is a compromise made for the features and gain. So keep that in mind when you try one.

Im not like a lot of guys at these forums, cork sniffing about vintage amps and bashing modern amps for fear of something different. Ive owned high end multi channel modern amps all my life. Having spent just as much time with vintage amps they lack many of the things vintage amps are loved for in order to have flexibility and gain which is OK for modern amp type people. I had an 100B that had to go. I play an SLO now. Deizel, VHT, Egnator, etc... Its all the same. I make a compromise but I wish I was in a situation where I could use a multi amp setup or I would sell the SLO.

Billy · Post by **Billy** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:10 am

Peerfect example of what Im talking about. Listen to the Bob Savages Clips of the Shiva at Bogners website. Though you dont have to play like Bob does it still seems to me to be a better example of the Shivas overall tone when Im actually playing one and not listening to a nice recording. Very grungy and gained out even if it doesnt have an extreme metal quantity of gain.

Brentsp · Post by **Brentsp** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:23 am

Billy wrote:Peerfect example of what Im talking about. Listen to the Bob Savages Clips of the Shiva at Bogners website. Though you dont have to play like Bob does it still seems to me to be a better example of the Shivas overall tone when Im actually playing one and not listening to a nice recording. Very grungy and gained out even if it doesnt have an extreme metal quantity of gain.

Yeah I know what you mean. Compared to a plexi the shiva has more gain by a long shot. Its just voiced more vintage and has less gain than most of the current hi gain amps on the market. Savages Shiva was modded for more gain and tighter bottom end by the way.

Billy · Post by **Billy** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:01 pm

I was wondering what that 'Shunt' meant.