I ordered (3) New Sensor "Tung Sol" 12ax7's.

Post by **VelvetGeorge** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:07 pm

I really need to find modern production tubes that I:

A. like the sound of

B. can rely on in my builds

C. don't have to go through the whole batch to weed out noisy ones

D. can stand behind 100%

As the topic states, I ordered some of NS's Tung Sol 12AX7's. Not because I'm excited about them as much as I am sick of finding bad GT 12AX7M's.

I use the JJ 12ax7's in my kits. They are very consistant, but not always the best tube for a particular amp.

The JJ EC803 sounds really good, but not for every application either. And I have had a few duds.

The EH stuff is decent too. But like all NS 12ax7's, just too hyped sounding for my taste. I need the flat, musical response of Mullards.
Why does every manufacturer accentuate the highs and lows so much?

The EI elite stuff sounds good, but last time I tried them they still had noisy tubes in each batch.

What are you guys using?

Output tubes:

two winners in outputs come to mind. The Valve Art KT66 and the JJ E34L.

VA KT66, I have yet to see one of these fail (knock on wood). Even at 520V in my JTM 100 clone. And they sound F'in great. Much better than the GT, and 10 times more reliable. My supplier matches them and they're always within a few milliamps. I stand behind this tube.

JJ E34L, I've sold well over 1,000 of these. Very reliable. When I was gigging full time I would use a set in my 100 watt for 6-8 months. Everything on "10", 3-4 hours a night, 3-5 nights a week.
Great sound, not all that Mullard sounding but great mid range snarl. And no hyped lows or highs. I stand behind this tube.

NS Mullard EL34, bad luck from the start. Poor matching, lots of drift during break in. Once they are burned in and matched, they really do sound good. Nice flat response with a little bit of that Mullard woodiness. Dan from Anthrax has a set in one of his metro heads. They have held up for the last 6 months.

Winged "C" very reliable tube, but it seems like my suppliers are always back ordered on these. A bit dry sounding, definately not hyped. Making them just right for some amps, but not all.

EH 6CA7, very well liked. I admit to not spending enough time with these to form a fair opinion. I'll try some soon. They seem reliable.

I'll try to add to this as I try others. I'm gong to order a few sets of the Valve Art EL34's. If they are anything like the KT66's they should be a winner.

George

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:18 pm

I wish I could answer your one question too George. For some fucked up reason everything you get new has an inherent hi and lo boost to it or a mid scoop of some kind. It drives me nuts because that never sounds anything but muddy/boomy or harsh/icepicky.

Flames1950 · Post by **Flames1950** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:31 pm

The JJ ECC803's I got from you sound great in my Metro Super Bass, with a very similar response to my Telefunkens that I rely on, but I can see their higher gain not being appropriate for earlier-oriented Marshall builds like the '67 and JTM100, and I think they have a little less sustain than the Telefunkens. Not much, but just enough to be noticeable when you try to hold that big note, there's a little less there. But a great tube for '69-style builds if you're not having reliability issues with any of them.

I really like the SED Winged =C= EL34's, but like you I have seen supply problems with SED's stuff, especially every time I get it in my head that I'd like to try their 6L6 for my Fenders.
The reliability and sound of the JJ's still makes them your winner for the moment. Even if they aren't the same frequency response as a Mullard, they have a great tone that complements a '69 Marshall build really well.
I hope the Valve Arts EL34's are cool. I've still got a pair of Shuguang EL34's here that I haven't put in an amp yet, I thought the Valve Arts were Shuguang production, right?

For your JTM45's an option of JAN 6L6WGB's might be cool for guys that want that early 5881 JTM45 sound. I haven't checked up on them in a while, but the price was pretty damn reasonable a year ago for an NOS pair of tubes, about the same as new production!!

Yecch · Post by **Yecch** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:39 am

Good luck. I haven't found a modern production pre-amp tube that lasts more than 6 months of regular gigging without turning microphonic, noisy etc...It's all junk. NOS all the way; sadly really costly.

Eoin · Post by **Eoin** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:48 pm

"Scooped" seems to be in for just about everything these last few years. The fact that our low frequency perception is based almost entirely on mid range harmonics got lost somewhere in the mid-90s.

The music at the time sucked which is possibly why no one noticed.

bobtec · Post by **bobtec** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:54 pm

I use to hear about EVH useing GT6ca7 and heavy EQing .I think you will never get as good as NOS,because of the steel. Everything is made cheaper,now with man made mat.Something happened in the 70'sThe World Turned Flat again.

rjgtr · Post by **rjgtr** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:34 pm

But lets also remember that not every NOS tube is identical and great either. I finally broke down and got a bunch of NOS preamp tubes, Mullards, Brimars and RFTS. I like the RFTs a lot. Good bang for the money. The Mullards are a mixed bag. I got a set of the version that GT modelled theirs from (xf2s?) and I have to admit the GTs are damn close. Not quite as magical, but very, very close. If the GT QA was a little better they would be a no brainer for gigging. OF the Mullards I have, I like the box plate version the best. A very smooth and beautiful tube. Fat warm mids and a smooth detailed high end. So far my favorite tube of all time. The GT and other Mullard doesn't sound like this tube.

The Brimars sound really good but for my money you can get two RFTs for the price of a NOS Brimar and the Brimar isn't that much better.

But I have had a Mullard go dead on me (sob!). So all is not perfect in NOS world, even with a reputable dealer, a tube can go bad.

On new production, there really isn't too much to choose from. Unexciting, but very reliable Sovtek made stuff or better sounding and reliable JJs. I'm not sure I like the JJ ECC803S as much as the regular ECC83S, but they are both good tubes.

IF the TungSols are good tubes great, but the whole thing of using the Svetlana, Mullard, TungSol names sort of grates on me...

Post by **VelvetGeorge** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:20 pm

I did get a chance to try these Tung Sol 12AX7's over the weekend. Just briefly. I tried them in my '67 replica 100 watt.

First I listened to the GT Mullard copies, in all three spots. Not bad, but not all that vintage sounding either.

Next I put in the Tung Sol's. Much more vintage sounding and a little less noise. Better mid range complexity. And more usuable low end.

Finally I put in some old Mullards. I think the best way to describe them is, familiar. Every time I hear real Mullards I go, "yeah, that's the tone I've been hearing my whole life". Punchy, dry mids. Smooth highs and never harsh. The low end was actually a little more flubby than the Tung Sols. But I haven't screened these yet. I just grabbed them and threw them in.

Overall, I like them. Better than the GT. But they are not quite real Mullard sonic bliss.

I'll try to make some comparison clips later this week. I want to listen to each of these in the JTM 45.

George

NY Chief · Post by **NY Chief** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:47 pm

VelvetGeorge wrote:
I use the JJ 12ax7's in my kits. They are very consistant, but not always the best tube for a particular amp.

The JJ EC803 sounds really good, but not for every application either.

George

George, when you say not always best for a particular amp/application what are using for criteria (other than your ears)? What in your opinion makes one better than the other?

Just curios.

Post by **VelvetGeorge** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:05 pm

The JJ Ecc83's are great tubes, but in some amps they just sound too dark. Conversly, they can help balance amps that are too bright.
I always try to use the tube that best compliments the particular amp.

George

MSML · Post by **MSML** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:57 pm

FYI, the JJ EL34s in my old Music Man HD-150 head stood up to 735VDC all the time, but it was in my studio, not out playing gigs and getting tossed in and out of vans all night. Still, they always sounded good given the constraints of the circuit design.

Mike

novosibir · Post by **novosibir** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:35 pm

Did anybody meanwhile have extensive experience with the new TungSol 12AX7A?

Larry

sub · Post by **sub** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:15 pm

novosibir wrote:Did anybody meanwhile have extensive experience with the new TungSol 12AX7A?

Larry

I've 3 TungSol RI 12AX7!
Sorry..for the time being i'm not trying these..............
If i tried i will post.
Before -> i put '76 OT, then SED El34, then the TungSol.........
I want separate hearing all change

killertone · Post by **killertone** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:36 pm

George,

Have you had any problems with Valve Art? I got a quad of 6550A's ande they failed when biased to 50mA. I put in the old SED 6550's and the amp came back to life. Know anything about that?

Flames1950 · Post by **Flames1950** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:10 pm

killertone wrote:George,

Have you had any problems with Valve Art? I got a quad of 6550A's ande they failed when biased to 50mA. I put in the old SED 6550's and the amp came back to life. Know anything about that?

50mA sounds like a lotta cathode current.....what plate voltage is that at????

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I ordered (3) New Sensor "Tung Sol" 12ax7's.

I ordered (3) New Sensor "Tung Sol" 12ax7's.

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Re: I ordered (3) New Sensor "Tung Sol" 12ax7's.