Anyone try the new weber legacy speaker???

[scooter.thomas]

I just got two, G12H style. I took advantage of last month's "buy one, get one half off" deal. They sound great, and they're very pretty; impeccable craftsmanship.

I mixed the Legacys with two Mojo BV-25Ms -- one re-coned to a ASW Crossroads -- in a modern 1960b. The Legacys are dominant -- noticeably louder -- but the tones are compatible.

My cab was very good cosmetically, but I had to fix lots of stuff: replaced a cross threaded T nut, made a steel mono jackplate, padded the center post, re-wired with AWG 16 (twisted to avoid inductance), tossed the plastic handles etc.

I've only been using them since Saturday. I have a Legacy and the Crossroads on top so at close proximity that's mostly what I'm hearing. The overtone/harmonic content is huge.

[Scumback Speakers]

Scooter...I saw your post over on the Weber board. With regard to this statement you made:

"Lastly, the cab has an issue. Over 6 on the JTM I get a nasty baffle artifact (giant kazoo) only at 110 Hz (low A, 6th string only.) I don't know what that's about. I'm hoping I just need to pad and maybe reinforce the center post."

What you're experiencing is called cone cry. That's the kazoo sound you hear. No amount of padding your cab will kill that. It's a byproduct of a poor build of one or two of your speakers, or you possibly overtightened your speaker bolts and bent the frame which could also cause this.

Here's how to double check your speaker bolt installation.

http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/speakermounting.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good luck with the troubleshooting.

[Fever Dog]

I had a similar problem with some weber made scumbacks in a 1960 ax cabinet. I had 2 25watt m75 and 2 30watt h75 in its. My problem was the same. Low notes around A on the low e string produced a second tone. It was the cabinet vibrating.

The cabinet didn't make the noise when I took the back baffle off.

I got fed up with it it and sold it. I put the speakers in an open back cabinet and now it's all good.

Those speakers produce a lot of low end. The cabinet just couldn't handle it.

[scooter.thomas]

I cut a piece of an old dense neoprene mouse pad -- about 3/32" thick -- and padded the center post end. I can run the JTM dimed no problem, not that I play that loud. I intend to update my post on the Weber forum, but "Jim" got ahead of me. Bolt tightening comes up ad nauseam on gear forums, and I've long understood it, but thanks.

Cone cry may well have been part of what I was experiencing. I've had more than a few new speakers go through crying phases as part of breaking in. It's nothing to get excited about.

The way these speakers work is definitely something to get excited about! My goodness gracious, Great Googly Moogly! Man oh man oh man, these things are awesome! I feel like one of those hemp biased Tone Tubby guys, where they talk about their speakers like they're mystical. Well, all superlatives apply to these Legacys. These speakers are un-freakin'-real! And ditto on the Crossroads.

[scooter.thomas]

I felt the fix for my cab problem, the problem of which was inadvertently reported here, needed more clarity. I did this for my own edification, and for the benefit of anyone reading this.

So, here's how I spent my day.

I both recreated the cab buzz and corrected it again: I removed the pad I had glued to the center post, refitted the back panel, cranked up and got the buzz. Then I removed the back panel, cranked up, no buzz. I replaced the pad, screwed the back panel back on, cranked up and played buzz free.

I played my JTM45 on 9 for almost an hour. It's been a long time since I've experienced pressure levels like that, but man it was fun. Painful, but fun! I'm not doing that again without earplugs!!

In my mind, to my satisfaction, today I demonstrated that all of my speakers are performing perfectly. Cone cry was never in play, and the build quality of my speakers is excellent. Sorry "Jim", but your assertions to the contrary were simply wildly off the mark.

The Weber Legacys are pure dynamite, but I also want to comment on the ASW Crossroads. First, mine is a recone but as far as I'm concerned it's the same as their stock build except for cosmetics -- Mojo basket/mag assembly. They get a premium price, and they do a beautiful job. Today I was really hearing it and it's the most silky smooth G12M-25 going. As I understand it, ASW is the only game in town having formulated proprietary cones to reproduce pulsonic tone? Whatever it is they're doing, it's pretty special.

Anyway, I got off on all this cab stuff. In answer to "Anyone try the new Weber Legacy speaker???", You betcha! They're everything you want 'em to be. Go get some. You'll be glad you did.

[Scumback Speakers]

Scooter, since you're new to cab issues, allow me to update you a bit.

You added length onto your cab's center post. That flattened your baffle board. Your baffle board was probably warped. That in turn tweaked your speakers frames, causing the cone to tweak the voice coil, which then caused the cone cry in your speakers.

There's only a few 1000ths of a gap in the voice coil area either way. Any minor twisting/tweaking of the speaker frame will cause cone cry in the speakers. So you basically "flattened your baffle board" so your speakers weren't twisted.

As for what speakers might have caused the cone cry, the answer is any or all, because any speaker tweaked like that isn't going to perform correctly and exhibit cone cry or the wonderful "kazoo" tone you had.

So basically you fixed your warped baffle board and your speakers now lay flat and don't cry. It's about as simple as that. Glad to hear you got it fixed.

[scooter.thomas]

Perhaps I should clarify. I'll be 57 this summer. I got my first guitar at 14, first electric at 15. This isn't my first rodeo. I will stipulate much of my experience is in the Fender domain, and this is only my second Marshall cab, but cabs aren't new to me. I think my first cab rattle was a '73 twin I bought new and retrofitted with JBLs. I certainly know about true vs warped baffles, cone cry, bolt tightening, shimming for rubs, etc etc.

In my experience, cone cry is arbitrary in pitch and usually is not consonant with the fundamental like sympathetic vibration, and it often includes a hard break, like a glottal stop (the vocal technique used to yodel.) The hard break occurs at that moment the cone transitions from controlled to uncontrolled oscillation. Where I previously said I might have had some cone cry ... I shouldn't have said that. That was me trying to be charitable. Cone cry was never in play. I would also retract "kazoo." It's a forum after all ... I'm not trying to write prose here.

Early on, I checked the baffle with a precision steel straight edge and it's true (maybe I should have mentioned that before.) The pad material I used is an unusual neoprene and where I said it was 3/32", I didn't put the caliper on it ... it may be less ... and it will compress like 80% or better. My analysis is reinforced by the observation that my baffle plays true both with the back panel removed and with the panel attached with the pad in place. I bet a floating baffle allows for more travel than my pad would cause. If baskets were as sensitive as you state, no wood baffle would suffice without some sort of relief adjusting mechanism, like a truss rod, and some sort of precision rigid reinforcement. Baffles would need to be made of steel, or maybe marble? Don't get me wrong, the speakers we use are precision instruments and absolutely are sensitive to basket deformities, but I think you've overstated that to make your case.

I don't recall what put me onto padding the center post, but I do recall having seen this thread.
http://www.marshallforum.com/cabinets-s ... -12-a.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At this point we will just have to agree to disagree, and let this thread return to folks relating their experiences with Weber Legacys. And I'm happy to let you have the last word if you like.

[Scumback Speakers]

Perhaps I should clarify. I'll be 57 this summer. I got my first guitar at 14, first electric at 15. This isn't my first rodeo. I will stipulate much of my experience is in the Fender domain, and this is only my second Marshall cab, but cabs aren't new to me. I think my first cab rattle was a '73 twin I bought new and retrofitted with JBLs. I certainly know about true vs warped baffles, cone cry, bolt tightening, shimming for rubs, etc etc.

In my experience, cone cry is arbitrary in pitch and usually is not consonant with the fundamental like sympathetic vibration, and it often includes a hard break, like a glottal stop (the vocal technique used to yodel.) The hard break occurs at that moment the cone transitions from controlled to uncontrolled oscillation. Where I previously said I might have had some cone cry ... I shouldn't have said that. That was me trying to be charitable. Cone cry was never in play. I would also retract "kazoo." It's a forum after all ... I'm not trying to write prose here.

Early on, I checked the baffle with a precision steel straight edge and it's true (maybe I should have mentioned that before.) The pad material I used is an unusual neoprene and where I said it was 3/32", I didn't put the caliper on it ... it may be less ... and it will compress like 80% or better. My analysis is reinforced by the observation that my baffle plays true both with the back panel removed and with the panel attached with the pad in place. I bet a floating baffle allows for more travel than my pad would cause. If baskets were as sensitive as you state, no wood baffle would suffice without some sort of relief adjusting mechanism, like a truss rod, and some sort of precision rigid reinforcement. Baffles would need to be made of steel, or maybe marble? Don't get me wrong, the speakers we use are precision instruments and absolutely are sensitive to basket deformities, but I think you've overstated that to make your case.

I don't recall what put me onto padding the center post, but I do recall having seen this thread.
http://www.marshallforum.com/cabinets-s ... -12-a.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At this point we will just have to agree to disagree, and let this thread return to folks relating their experiences with Weber Legacys. And I'm happy to let you have the last word if you like.

EDIT: That's a whole lot of retracting, correcting, back pedaling, explaining and "Oh by the way, I did this first..." with your cab there, Scooter!

[erigm]

EDIT: That's a whole lot of retracting, correcting, back pedaling, explaining and "Oh by the way, I did this first..." with your cab there, Scooter!

Give it a break Jim. Why not agree to disagree like Scooter suggested?

Eric

[Coot Boy]

Because Jim knows best