2 Variac's clip

[efraser68]

James I knew your amp sounded great before so it helps when the source is righteous to begin with. But this is holy-grail type tones! Can an amp be run like this long-term???

[jnew]

I sure hope so. When I get home on Tuesday, I'll have a week to put a few hours at a time to it. I'm gonna try and learn some other VH songs to play. Songs that I think may sort of highlight this cool little effect.

I think about what's really going on with this and all this thing really is, is a ton of long copper windings. Probably like a 200 foot speaker cable would be. I'm no electrical guy by any means so I'm sure there is much more to it but it sure has my interest.

Thank you for listening and commenting Eric.

[plexified]

James ,
well done . It does sound very tasty and harmonic laden . Like you said mic placement could peel onions with this tone here . Its safe , as it monitors the wall voltage and the output section is just like he said a lot of copper . The 90volt point is a unity zone. You can turn up or down , but I would not go too high here . The front end voltage is the most important to consider . Here the wall needs to see 110 for vintage amps to be 'right' - up to say 1975 iron . And if you want to turn down to get a sound , just monitor your bias to make sure your not wasting output tubes here .
To get to basics , use the variac on your power supply rail to bring the line voltage up slowly from zero while your power switch is 'on' and the stand by is off . When you get up to your power number after a few minutes of heating the amp just power it back to zero . Now flip the stand by 'ON' and power the variac slowly to your number ' or soft start' and play . The benefit is that its a soft start power down strategy that helps the amp live and the caps of older amps will not be shocked by instant 'on' scenario'. So to power down leave the amp in play and just run the mains variac back to zero and flip the standby to off after say five minutes to discharge caps safely .
This set up is directly active with your feedback loop and the resistor in this circuit is going to color the sound. For instance if you think James has a thin sound , with his exact settings you could go up to a 100k feedback resistor or slightly higher to get thickness . I think the mic could be placed farther away from the center in this recording and you will get warmth and go that route before the resistor tweak . ALOT of tone chasing here . Especially considering you can fatten when turning up the voltage to the mains in relations to James here . The volume and the output going up on the speaker from 90 or unity is something I cannot comment upon , but it would not hurt to tweak it upwards if you consider it should be done a lil bump at a time and be aware if your speakers are low wattage .
Great tones and playing James , you have a good vibe in your playing and this is one emperor has no clothes clip is something to be proud of for sure . Well done !

[jnew]

Hey David,
Very kind words there, and they are greatly appreciated. The amp tone? Well, it's all your fault. In all seriousness, I love this arrangement but only had minutes to put something up to share before coming offshore. I'm going to make a lot more time for mic placement, voltage regulation, bias, etc. I'm even going to go back into this amp and put things back to more normal. This 50 watter is the guinea pig or lab rat. And though it's pretty close to stock, I know there's a couple things different. 100K NFB is one. 330uF on V2 is there but I don't remember if it's with or without the .68 there as well. Pretty certain .044 is on the PI input as well. This 2nd variac does such wonders that I think those little fattening gimmicks I have in there, just aren't needed but that's what this next week will be all about. That and figuring out a new early VH song.

[rgalpin]

2nd Variac (between head and cab) set at 90.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... D=13186163

[arriving late to the kick-butt tone party going on in this thread!!!]

SNAKES jnew!! SNAKES ALIVE!! this tone has something so beautiful in it that i heard in the first two seconds! and it just got better and better as i listened. when you demonstrated the Diver Down tones - DAG BRO. and then as Strat78 noted the pull off wammy at 2:14 SAYS IT ALL!! listen to the envelope opening and closing around that note as it falls. DUDE DUDE DUDE!!

This surpasses any clips I have ever heard in an area of the tone that I am just in love with. The VH I tone is one thing... but this has a nuance to it - so freakin' tasty man.

I would love to hear it be just a little stiffer - so we can feel the pick attack on the WHATGTG double stop pattern a little more pronounced - it's going to be less compressed and hard to play but it's going to have the hardness it needs to get the Diver Down era plangK tone that you hear on that album - like the solo of Dancin' In the Streets - which to me is the same as the tight trampoline "balloon ready to pop" tightness as the Beat It solo. I think you will move toward this tone as you raise the voltage on Variac 1 = less compression harder with more head room.

This is the box I believe you have opened here - sorry to be so dramatic but this IS THE STUFF MAN!! WAY TO GO!!!

[jnew]

Rob, really glad you heard this and chimed in. I was hoping you would cause I know that bottled up, tension in the tone thing appeals to you. This thing brings some of that.

It's all good my brutha's. I'm happy to see that this cool effect comes thru in a crappy, out of tune clip. But yeah, when you hear it, you hear it and IMO, this has brought forth, much of that elusive special sumthin sumthin.

As much as I would love to take credit for this, it's David (plexified) who led me. In fact, he's posted a lot of stuff over time that I'll probably re-visit. But he posted of this little stunt, a long time ago and Phil and Shannon (I think) have actually, already done it. And those clips killed.

[rgorke]

When you do get back home and can tinker...it would be great to hear a clip with the 2nd variac in the signal chain, then one with out. Just to hear what exactly it is doing A/B ing it....

[jnew]

I will do it.

[ttowne]

jnew

Very nice! whats your filtering? Am I understanding this correctly, is this a JTM converted to 12 series with tube rectifier left in?

[jnew]

Basically, yes it is. Filtering has 16uF' on the pre-amp, 16uF on the screens, 50uF mains and 100 PI. Big bottle 6CA7's too.

[ttowne]

Cool, I don't have a lot of experience in this area but in my mind I can't quite comprehend the stiff nature to your clip originating from a tube rectifier, especially with fairly low filtering.

[jnew]

Stiff? Hmm. I don't think it's stiff at all. Stiff to me is an amp that sort of hits hard and is right back at you with little or no give or bounce, or sag, if you will. (Jeez, where's rgalpin when we need him. I can't put things into words as well as he does) To me, this amp is giving in a lot when you hit it. It sort of collapses and falls far away before it comes back at you. I think that's what creates those cool vowel nuances. At least this is how I interoperate sag. The collapsing or failure of what you call stiff. But when it does come back, it's tight and punctual, which is what I'm thinking you are referring to as stiff. Does this make sense?

[ttowne]

Jnew

I should have clarified, as stiff was not intended to be derogatory at all. Stiff/tight as in comparison to what I'd imagine from tube rectified and low filtered with the exception of the 100uf on PI.

[jnew]

Nah man, I didn't take it as derogatory at all. I think we're just trying to get our words on parallel terms. Your meaning of stiff was probably just implying that the tone holds up and isn't loose and sort of sloppy sounding. (though the playing is sloppy, )
Which in that sense, I would agree. But, it has a lot of spongy, sinking in kind of depth in the bounce. And that momentary slack, for lack of words, makes that pronounced wooly vowel thing so nice.
DANG, this is hard to put into words.

[plexified]

Ahh,
you ask the right questions. Stiff is very prevealent in a new build and that may be the wall voltage being too high like 125ish and the fact that its a new transformer . Here a 12 series has a very under rated transformer , output that is . Its a transformer that gets 'starved' for wall voltage and sags . This is the mojo here . Just a stock rewind is going to give you this unless either A - the winder is spot on or B- the winder is spot on . It has to have the starved persona where you can drop a lot of voltage to get that tone . And it was just a design thing . The second variac is a soft landing . A shimmer in the feedback loop that deploys a soft kickback to the amp . In addition it gives a filtering to some extent and highlights the tuning in the feedback loop . It can turn down volume or turn it up to a small degree . But it adds latency . Yeah a big word but its a time proponent. If your amp is stiff it will add softness with a shimmer. Being it has so much length in the wire from source to cab and reflect back . Most new amps are stiff. This is a bonus. I have said before the 12 series is very distinct in its tone. Mod it up the ass in the front and it still retains its character because of the power trans. Its actually the most difficult transformer and power rail to duplicate with new parts . That said , Even the big later output transformer Ed put in the amp for say VHII sounded a bit more open and live without effect so to speak , it was the power transformer that was still leading the way . I know Ed told of all the outputs he replaced , but none was more important than the power transformer . That is what I spoke of for years without anybody getting what I was talking about. I spoke of my own 12'er being modded up the river from Harry Kolbe from Soundsmith and it sounded killer . Harry even left a channel to plug in that he called the Bassman and it was more of a stock into. And when you are on 10 it still bypassed all the mod stuff and sounded stock . It was all because of the power transformer and the stock filtering. Plug into the mod 'port' and it was super killer low volume or mid volume nirvana , BUT wide open , it was still stock Plexi sound . Why , the power trans . So Ed was all about disinformation man . Bias this , voltage that. Doesn't matter , the sound was their . So he mostly spoke of tone control and having it turned down . And to me it was BS . You have to be louder than that animal we know and love know as AL. Sylvanias do give reliability and handle a full blast . I like the sound of em . But , still the 12'er stands alone despite all these tweaks even the mains voltage being dropped. I would advocate 110 volts being a vintage piece and my previous usage of a variac to power up and down. That's it . A new build is just not the same . That's why this set up will accel at a sound. It is a bounce on the output that is spongy and tight at the same time while highlighting harmonics. A feedback sample will have you 'in' as you realize its feedback is special . And to tweak your feedback resistor here is going to toneshape the amp with your speakers . So its a win win and safe. Can be turned down if you need it and its repeatable. You monitor your line to your preference and then your output volume to spec. Safe and very tonefull. Just sudy the power amp spec and understand it sags here. Also the 3D soundfield means that all the placement of the parts adds up . Certainly tweak your preamp to taste , every amp is different and here you too can get the elusive pedal in the front sound with stock specs . Its real . No fuss , just run what you know here , you will find it .