Debate on Eddie's Plexi

[vanhalen5150]

It's funny....all this talk of mods....George's '68 does it with none of this vodoo. What you get sent in a box is the sound that Strat78 is serving up. I finished mine back in April with the same specs. Side by side you would not be able to tell mine from his.

[leadguy]

Ed's minor mods like the fat cap on V2 and the transformer replacement could have come after VH1 because no one knows the timeline.

My feeling is that Ed recorded VH1 with the stock circuit which I can't prove so don't ask for any proof. One of the changes from George's 68 is the 820/.68uf on V1 which Ed had instead of the 2.7k/.68uf on V1 in George's circuit because the early 12 series like Ed's, had a 820/.68uf on V1 and the later ones had the 2.7k/.68uf on V1. They both have 820/.68uf on V2 and Ed at some point modified this to a 820/.68uf + 470uf on V2 for more bass. The other Ed change from George's 68 circuit is a .0022 coupling cap on the treble channel http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2887" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As I've been saying, the 820/.68uf on V1 has less bass and more gain then the 2.7k/.68uf on V1. Whether it makes a huge difference in the real world is up to someones taste, but the 820/.68uf on V1 EQ's the bass and mids in a different way to 2.7k/.68uf on V1.

[vh junkie]

I can't believe how many times I read the vkaxeman epic an thought that that value must be a typo.

[wjamflan]

What about the JMP output transformer that plexified spoke about? Do we have picture evidence (or other) that he used it on VHI? Strat 78s clip does sound really close. Check this quote we've probably all read a 1000 times:

EVH interview with J. Obrecht (7/23/78):

EVH: Ah, I'll tell ya, man, the stuff I used onstage today isn't really my setup. See, we toured Japan, and on the way back over, all my good shit got ripped off. Got lost in air freight – by [shouts into microphone] Pan Am, ya fuckers! No, really. Some of it got lost – didn't get put on the same plane, whatever. I used to have four very old Marshalls – about '65 – and I had a guy named Jose [Arredondo], who's in the San Fernando Valley somewhere, beef 'em up. He put bigger transformers in 'em. There's a thing called bias in an amp, and you crank it all the way up and it really makes the tubes hot. I use [the amps] with these other things, which are called voltage generators – like a Variac. It's a big box with a knob on it that controls voltage. Plug your amp into it, and it goes all the way from zero volts to like 140. The amp's only supposed to take 100 volts, but you crank the thing above that like to 130, 140 volts, and the tubes really glow. So ya gotta keep a fan on it. Those amps used to blow like every other gig, and you have to re-tube them every other day, but they crank! They sound like nothing else to me, because they're so overdriven. They usually don't work for more than ten hours of playing – maybe even less, because every other gig they blow out. It fries, you know. I had four good amps that I used to use all the time, but I don't have them any more.

Source: http://www.vhlinks.com/pages/interviews/evh/gu1978.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It would appear that Jose definitely did this before VHII. Do we know if it was before VHI?

There was a big change in Ed's tone between late '76 and early '77? Could the transformer change have happened then? And would it make the radical difference we heard? Plexified??

Another pertinent question seems to be, are these methods really safe for the amp? Or does it cause the amp to blow out after 10 hours?

[rgorke]

I think it is pretty much summed up in George's 68 kit. Here is a clip, guitar, Echoplex and 68 Metro 100w; volume on 8:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9451688" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not saying this is the exact tone (low E string snarl is not there yet), but allot of the earmarks are there for an amp that is not even broken in yet.

Dude! That is smokin'! Only 2 gain stages, and only on 8? It sure has the crunch, man. That is just the stock '68 kit setup with an echoplex in front?

That's all it is, oh and the flanger for the intro bits. Attacking the strings helps too. The 68 kit is George's gift to the world!

Where do you have your echoplex set for the delay? 10, 15, or more?

[vh junkie]

What about the JMP output transformer that plexified spoke about? Do we have picture evidence (or other) that he used it on VHI? Strat 78s clip does sound really close. Check this quote we've probably all read a 1000 times:

EVH interview with J. Obrecht (7/23/78):

EVH: Ah, I'll tell ya, man, the stuff I used onstage today isn't really my setup. See, we toured Japan, and on the way back over, all my good shit got ripped off. Got lost in air freight – by [shouts into microphone] Pan Am, ya fuckers! No, really. Some of it got lost – didn't get put on the same plane, whatever. I used to have four very old Marshalls – about '65 – and I had a guy named Jose [Arredondo], who's in the San Fernando Valley somewhere, beef 'em up. He put bigger transformers in 'em. There's a thing called bias in an amp, and you crank it all the way up and it really makes the tubes hot. I use [the amps] with these other things, which are called voltage generators – like a Variac. It's a big box with a knob on it that controls voltage. Plug your amp into it, and it goes all the way from zero volts to like 140. The amp's only supposed to take 100 volts, but you crank the thing above that like to 130, 140 volts, and the tubes really glow. So ya gotta keep a fan on it. Those amps used to blow like every other gig, and you have to re-tube them every other day, but they crank! They sound like nothing else to me, because they're so overdriven. They usually don't work for more than ten hours of playing – maybe even less, because every other gig they blow out. It fries, you know. I had four good amps that I used to use all the time, but I don't have them any more.

Source: http://www.vhlinks.com/pages/interviews/evh/gu1978.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It would appear that Jose definitely did this before VHII. Do we know if it was before VHI?

There was a big change in Ed's tone between late '76 and early '77? Could the transformer change have happened then? And would it make the radical difference we heard? Plexified??

Another pertinent question seems to be, are these methods really safe for the amp? Or does it cause the amp to blow out after 10 hours?

Let's do the second question first!
If you turn the variac up to 140vac you will melt the amp!
90vac is about right.

First question: when did Jose install the JMP 100 otx?
Right after Ed turned the variac up to 140vac! (If not before!)

[StuntDouble]

...

[Tone Slinger]

Great clip there Strat78, now I am reconsidering how I will first complete my 12xxx kit. I'm nowhere near through with it (I am very disorganized with the LITTLE time I have). For my purposes at the moment, which will be playing at low to low/moderate volumes, I think I would need a good attenuator to go with the 'stock' spec. I hear that only the Aracom attenuator ($550) works well when attenuated down to my volume needs, so I think I'll probably go with a v1 cascade and the ppimv combo.

It's very noticable, AND very telling, how early EVH tone can be gotten from a couple, three ways. The foundation seems to be the same (12xxx/'69-'73 type preamp spec, lower filtering, etc) but the gain can be achieved differently, with great results. I realize Ed got his from cranking up the volume.


Still, I think that first album era EVH tone can be gotten just as good by using MV's, like the Mod 5. I think that getting in the 'Ballpark', as far as the actual equipment being used, is very important, I also think that a spec (like the mod 5) which is pretty much KNOWN to NOT be what was actually used on VH1, can sound as good if not better than trying to get at it by using exactly what Ed used.

I think that the player really makes this sound happen. Rockstah has clips that show almost every angle, over, under, sideways down, of early EVH type tone. Strat78 is posting clips with great playing and tone as well. I've purposely NOT posted clips (though I tried and failed to put some Peavey triple xxx clips up of EVH type tone/playing, it was TOO long) until I got the right gear togather.

I would like to hear more clips being posted by the people here who have these builds togather . I know that everybody isnt a player in the caliber of Rockstah and Strat78, but clips do help with newbies tryin to decide on which way to go.


I guess what I'm saying is that if that VH1 sound cannot be gotten 100% using the EXACT type gear and spec as Ed used, then NOT using the exact spec (like Mod 5) could get just as close.

[StuntDouble]

...

[Tone Slinger]

How much gain can you get out of jumping two lead channels at, say a loud bedroom volume ? This does sound very cool.

[StuntDouble]

...

[Strat78]

Where do you have your echoplex set for the delay? 10, 15, or more?

Here is a clip with the 820 instead of the 2.7k on V1. The tone really starts to hit the VH1 drive at 1:54:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9456533" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is the guitar with the hidden pickup and cap under the pickguard, which might account for the lack of compression on the low E string? But the rest of the strings are magic.

[vh junkie]

Bad Ass!!!

Is this in LOv or HIv mode?

[Strat78]

Bad Ass!!!

Is this in LOv or HIv mode?

It's still on HIv! I'm also using an old Ohmite 7amp variac set to about 115w, Dave Freedman seemed to think that the type of variac influenced the tone as well so what I've got is pretty much what Ed used (perhaps the ampage was different though). It kind of intrigued me what plexifield said about getting that gainy sizzle with a slight clean tone with the speaker tap on 8ohms. So far this has been my experience, but I'll still try the 4ohm tap with the 100 cap. I'm getting a little quack in there that I like though I want to try to refine it, perhaps with a little eq'ing up front.

[vh junkie]

Bad Ass!!!

Is this in LOv or HIv mode?

It's still on HIv! I'm also using an old Ohmite 7amp variac set to about 115w, Dave Freedman seemed to think that the type of variac influenced the tone as well so what I've got is pretty much what Ed used (perhaps the ampage was different though). It kind of intrigued me what plexifield said about getting that gainy sizzle with a slight clean tone with the speaker tap on 8ohms. So far this has been my experience, but I'll still try the 4ohm tap with the 100 cap. I'm getting a little quack in there that I like though I want to try to refine it, perhaps with a little eq'ing up front.

So your running a 16 ohm cab on an 8 ohm setting or are we taking about NFB?

What happens if you take the variac down lower? I run mine at 115 and use LOv mode...