Debate on Eddie's Plexi

[YMI5150?]

strat78 - you said volume was on 8. are you sitting in the same room or recording in isolation. does it sound close to the recording live?

you also used ceramic caps, correct? can you share supplier?

awesome tone brother!

[spaceace76]

Here is a clip with the 820 instead of the 2.7k on V1. The tone really starts to hit the VH1 drive at 1:54:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9456533" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the forum is about to explode

[YMI5150?]

I also see your build was kitted with a .022 cap for bright channel coupler. mine was too. should be a .0022uf. i have one on order from Sozo.

[vh junkie]

The other Ed change from George's 68 circuit is a .0022 coupling cap on the treble channel http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2887http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2887

Yup, If you follow leadguy's link above:
In the fifth post Humbucker says:
" Most of the '68 split cathode boards I've seen have 820 ohm/.68uf on V1b. Also, the V1 to V2 coupling cap from the bright channel should be .0022uf not .022uf. "

And in the sixth post George has a link to the alternate layout.

[Strat78]

strat78 - you said volume was on 8. are you sitting in the same room or recording in isolation. does it sound close to the recording live?

you also used ceramic caps, correct? can you share supplier?

awesome tone brother!

No ceramic caps in this build, but I'm interested in trying to find ones like George used in his 68 clone. I'm actually sitting kind of close to the amp though it is attenuated at %50 but still loud as hell on 8. With the mxr-6 band hooked up the amp squealed like mad so on a whim I went back to leaving it out and presto! In the room it sounds a little darker than the recording. The cone I'm micing is a tattered pre-rola g12m green back. I thought It was blown but I guess it is not. When I ordered the kit I had George throw in a couple of .0022's so I think I'll put one of those in next along with a 470uf in V2.

[vh junkie]

When I ordered the kit I had George throw in a couple of .0022's so I think I'll put one of those in next along with a 470uf in V2.

I just PM'ed you in this regard. Probably wanna do those mods together...

[vh junkie]

No ceramic caps in this build, but I'm interested in trying to find ones like George used in his 68 clone.

As am I! Anyone know what those are?

[YMI5150?]

think i found them.

560 uf, 500volt ceramic disc capacitors. 47pf too.

http://www.web-tronics.com/passive-elec ... itors.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[vh junkie]

I got a sinkin' feelin' there not gonna sell the sought after one's for that price...

... comeon folks, what are we lookin for... Muratas... Lemcos... RadioSpares?

The silver micas are probably good enough for our purposes... but some guys that have posted here recently are running like 330pf on the mixer... like to know what there using...

I hope George can get the store open soon, cause I suspect there are a lot of folks (who may or may not be over inbibing) that would like to buy a 12xxxx kit right about now!

Go strat78, go!

Geez! at this rate... while vanhalen5150's golfing... I might catch him in the post count... NAH!!!

[Tone Slinger]

That tone is really good strat78. Once you get a bit more bottom to it (lose the reissue eh mullards, get some JJ e34L's or some EH 6ca7's) I think you will be closer. The A-B-C progression at the end there was a bit thin.

Your playing skill more than compensates, and I may be off mark with my comments. Just trying to be critical. I want the same 'critique' when I'm done with mine and start slinging the tone.

[Strat78]

That tone is really good strat78. Once you get a bit more bottom to it (lose the reissue eh mullards, get some JJ e34L's or some EH 6ca7's) I think you will be closer. The A-B-C progression at the end there was a bit thin.

Your playing skill more than compensates, and I may be off mark with my comments. Just trying to be critical. I want the same 'critique' when I'm done with mine and start slinging the tone.

Ha ha, you gotta get your build going because this is the most fun I've ever had. I've got the NOS mustard bug for sure, but $50 a pop is something I have to work up too! The low end has been a challenge because the low E tone is nothing like VHI yet everything ells is kinda close. If I reduce the bass to get the low E to sizzle the rest will thin out even more. Guess I got to get busy with a few more mods and then maybe crawl back to the mxr 6-band. I'm open to suggestions for sure.

[StuntDouble]

...

[leadguy]

Where do you have your echoplex set for the delay? 10, 15, or more?

Here is a clip with the 820 instead of the 2.7k on V1. The tone really starts to hit the VH1 drive at 1:54:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9456533" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is the guitar with the hidden pickup and cap under the pickguard, which might account for the lack of compression on the low E string? But the rest of the strings are magic.

I think this clip is getting really close to VH1. Don't forget VH1 is bright, just listen to the iso's again and the VH1 brightness might be too much for some players including Ed, but the brightness is needed for the VH1 mids and top end and plus there was Donn and Ted with a mix of 2 mic positions, one darker and in a different position to the other and some EQing that Dave has mentioned and the room reverb all filling things out.

Theory Number 1:

Ed took the stock bright white knob Plexi into the studio for VH1 because it had some more balls then his other heads and the stock oddball early 12 series circuit helped give more balls but it was also bright (some 1977 photos show Ed sometimes preferring to play through other heads http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=32406" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Ed then had the fat cap more bass mod done on V2 done and that is VHII.

Theory Number 2:
I havn't got a theory number 2

[vh junkie]

The low end has been a challenge because the low E tone is nothing like VHI yet everything ells is kinda close. If I reduce the bass to get the low E to sizzle the rest will thin out even more. Guess I got to get busy with a few more mods and then maybe crawl back to the mxr 6-band. I'm open to suggestions for sure.

It will be interesting to hear your clips/thoughts as you do the next couple of mods... adding the .0022 will eliminate a lot of the bass... adding the bigger cap to v2 will add it back in... hopefully focusing the way you want...

[wjamflan]

Where do you have your echoplex set for the delay? 10, 15, or more?

Here is a clip with the 820 instead of the 2.7k on V1. The tone really starts to hit the VH1 drive at 1:54:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9456533" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is the guitar with the hidden pickup and cap under the pickguard, which might account for the lack of compression on the low E string? But the rest of the strings are magic.

I think this clip is getting really close to VH1. Don't forget VH1 is bright, just listen to the iso's again and the VH1 brightness might be too much for some players including Ed, but the brightness is needed for the VH1 mids and top end and plus there was Donn and Ted with a mix of 2 mic positions, one darker and in a different position to the other and some EQing that Dave has mentioned and the room reverb all filling things out.

Theory Number 1:

Ed took the stock bright white knob Plexi into the studio for VH1 because it had some more balls then his other heads and the stock oddball early 12 series circuit helped give more balls but it was also bright (some 1977 photos show Ed sometimes preferring to play through other heads http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=32406" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Ed then had the fat cap more bass mod done on V2 done and that is VHII.

Theory Number 2:
I havn't got a theory number 2

Theory Number 2 is exactly what people have been saying in this thread and others. Either Ed used some different mid boosting cap in the circuit, or he used an MXR 6 band eq (my personal belief from experience). I know that Strat78 said his rig hissed like crazy with the eq in front, but so did Ed's back in the day.

Basically, the sound is there in his clip, it's just missing the low string snarl and some hair that the 6 band provides. Most people who play ATBL and are missing these things blame their flangers. It's not the flanger at all - it's the eq taking that flanged signal and boosting and shaping it.

I feel like a broken record, but listen to the beginning of Little Dreamer and Feel Your Love Tonight. They are both low string riffs that also have that snarling, squawking, almost wha-like sound. That is not a stock plexi on it's own. It is eq'd.

Listen to these live clips from 10/15/77 (right @ VHI recording) of Ed playing low string riffs - FYLT and Voodoo Queen. They also have the same eq'd snarling squawk on the low strings. Check 'em out:

http://www.mediafire.com/?zyyhtimnttc

http://www.mediafire.com/?knomynnnjzq

What do you all think? Could it be a different cap, or would it be the 6 band we know for sure he had? Could it be something else? Maybe the effect of the JMP transformer? I don't think so, b/c lots of people used JMPs and no one else sounded like Ed IMHO.

Strat78 - please do us a favor. Try a guitar with just a humbucker and put the eq in front again. Play ATBL, FYLT, Little Dreamer riffs. I think you'll be really close to what you and all of us drool over.

My .02 (or theory number 2).

Bill