How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

For all things to build the brown sound

Moderators: VelvetGeorge, RACKSYSTEMS

leadguy
Senior Member
Posts: 2740
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 10:37 am

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by leadguy » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:14 am

Ed's got 2 Echoplexes for things like Aint Talking About Love that has 2 different delays on the intro. The EQ's are according to Ed mainly for signal loss and dealing with the acoustics of the venue.
"When your swinging, Swing some MORE" ~Monk

laneychris
Senior Member
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:02 am

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by laneychris » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:47 pm

For the doubters you MUST try a ep-3 before you discount the notion I bought one and it took a little while to dial it in but I believe without question this is how he used the ep-3 in front yes it sounds fantastic after the head or in a loop but you don't get the same effect.

leadguy
Senior Member
Posts: 2740
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 10:37 am

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by leadguy » Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:52 am

How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?


Like Jimmy Page, Joe Walsh, Eric Johnson etc etc did.


Eric Johnson Echoplex Demo

"He ran all his effects through the front of his amps back then. He also ran the echoplex after the tube driver to get a bit of a ducking effect. James Santiago covers this on youtube. There is a great video he did using different amps and effects to get the EJ tone. I will try to find it and post a link."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtI5UWAQXLg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=643433" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"When your swinging, Swing some MORE" ~Monk

MARCO
Senior Member
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:03 am
Location: IL

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by MARCO » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:48 pm

The EP-3 will sound subtle and more controllable when using between the main amp and final power amp (line out).
It is very sensitive when used in front, ESPECIALLY with a dimed plexi......the volume has to be extremely low on the EP-3, it is noisy at high volumes but very cool sounding!!
I got rid of mine 6 months ago and made a killing on it.
Experiment with both set ups and use your ears to tell u which is best! :mrgreen:
MARC34

leadguy
Senior Member
Posts: 2740
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 10:37 am

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by leadguy » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:38 am

I got hold of an Echoplex EP4 and this thing rocks.
Usually delays aren't part of my effects.

There is hardly any noise added to the signal by the EP4 and I'm running a US 110 volt EP4 with a 240v-110v voltage stepdown transformer for Australian voltage so I was expecting some noise issues.

There is no need to put it after the amp in a slaving setup for noise reasons.
In fact I'd say that the benefits of the Echoplex FET preamp on the input signal would be diminished by using the Echoplex after the amp in a slaving setup.

If someone wants to slave with the Echoplex in front of the amp then that would also work.

The EP4 makes about as much noise as my Maxon AD-999 analog bucket brigade delay.

I put it in front of my Digitech modeller on the Marshall master volume amp setting and it really livened the old Digitech up which sounds sort of ok by itself.
I'll test it out with my Nano head later.

The EP4 has a FET preamp like the EP3 with minor design differences.

The EP4 FET preamp and also my Boss MT-2 pedal with a FET buffer in bypass seem to do similar things to the input signal frequencies into the Digitech and it's the high impedance FET's doing it.

As I said before. any FET will do it because FET buffers are known to do it.
The signal is much more stronger and clear with much more sustain with the EP4 and Boss FET's before the Digitech.

I think the Echoplex FET preamp or something simulating it like a FET preamp/buffer and a bucket brigade analog delay in front of the amp is needed to cop a big chunk of Ed's early tone.

All I can say to anyone with a EP3 or EP4 with noise problems is that there would be something wrong with it, the heads, the tape, the power supply caps etc etc or it's connected up so that there is a ground loop noise problem.
Last edited by leadguy on Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
"When your swinging, Swing some MORE" ~Monk

User avatar
paulscape
Senior Member
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:51 am
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: in front of amp

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by paulscape » Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:56 am

He didn't start using the boss 10 band eq's until he toured japan in 78. he ran two in front for vh1 - one always on for it's tone shaping and mild slapback. Second ep3 is what he used for the longer delays like on ATBL or On fire. Univox was disconnected entirely until he did his eruption thing. He did experiment with settings like longer delays on 'down in flames' bootleg and different flanger settings on loss of control as examples.
Eat 'em and smile

User avatar
rgorke
Senior Member
Posts: 4509
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:37 am
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Drought Ravaged SoCal

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by rgorke » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:19 am

leadguy wrote:I got hold of an Echoplex EP4 and this thing rocks.
Usually delays aren't part of my effects.

There is hardly any noise added to the signal by the EP4 and I'm running a US 110 volt EP4 with a 240v-110v voltage stepdown transformer for Australian voltage so I was expecting some noise issues.

There is no need to put it after the amp in a slaving setup for noise reasons.
In fact I'd say that the benefits of the Echoplex FET preamp on the input signal would be diminished by using the Echoplex after the amp in a slaving setup.

If someone wants to slave with the Echoplex in front of the amp then that would also work.

The EP4 makes about as much noise as my Maxon AD-999 analog bucket brigade delay.

I put it in front of my Digitech modeller on the Marshall master volume amp setting and it really livened the old Digitech up which sounds sort of ok by itself.
I'll test it out with my Nano head later.

The EP4 has a FET preamp like the EP3 with minor design differences.

The EP4 FET preamp and also my Boss MT-2 pedal with a FET buffer in bypass seem to do similar things to the input signal frequencies into the Digitech and it's the high impedance FET's doing it.

As I said before. any FET will do it because FET buffers are known to do it.
The signal is much more stronger and clear with much more sustain with the EP4 and Boss FET's before the Digitech.

I think the Echoplex FET preamp or something simulating it like a FET preamp/buffer and a bucket brigade analog delay in front of the amp is needed to cop a big chunk of Ed's early tone.

All I can say to anyone with a EP3 or EP4 with noise problems is that there would be something wrong with it, the heads, the tape, the power supply caps etc etc or it's connected up so that there is a ground loop noise problem.
I have never had noise problems with my EP3 in front of the amp whether the delay was engaged or not. There was a beat up EP3 on ebay that went for $100 yesterday.
"If you make a mistake, do it twice and smile and let people think you meant it." Jan Van Halen.

User avatar
paulscape
Senior Member
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:51 am
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: in front of amp

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by paulscape » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:49 am

Out of interest, and sorry to be off topic, but how big are the components of the FET pre-amp? Im wondering if its possible to install an EP FET pre-amp in a guitar with a toggle switch? That could be kinda cool.
Eat 'em and smile

leadguy
Senior Member
Posts: 2740
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 10:37 am

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by leadguy » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:04 am

The components are very small.
The 9 volt battery is larger.

The Tillman FET preamp is very easy to fit into a guitars control cavity with a 9 volt battery, depending on the guitar of course.

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... a&start=75" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://johannburkard.de/blog/music/effe ... itter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"When your swinging, Swing some MORE" ~Monk

User avatar
paulscape
Senior Member
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:51 am
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: in front of amp

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by paulscape » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:33 am

leadguy wrote:The components are very small.
The 9 volt battery is larger.

The Tillman FET preamp is very easy to fit into a guitars control cavity with a 9 volt battery, depending on the guitar of course.

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... a&start=75" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://johannburkard.de/blog/music/effe ... itter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks mate - I have some room in a VH1 project guitar Im working on but accessing the 9 volt to change it would require lifting the pick guard each time unless I route another hole to the back. You mentioned the MT2 before. I own one and I never use it. Maybe I could rip that thing apart and use its FET and 9 volt housing?? But if a FET pre-amp is so simple why are the xotic and clinch boosters so expensive? Surely an MT2 FET wont get me the tone shaping of an EP3?
Eat 'em and smile

leadguy
Senior Member
Posts: 2740
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 10:37 am

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by leadguy » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:50 am

The Boss MT-2 sounds like crap to me when it's on but in bypass it's a FET buffer.

All Boss MT-2's might not be the same as Boss could change the circuit.
I seem to have a older one.

I think all pedals are expensive no matter what's in them,
The Electro Harmonix LPB 1 only has one transistor in it.
"When your swinging, Swing some MORE" ~Monk

User avatar
spaceace76
Senior Member
Posts: 1673
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 11:54 am
Just the numbers in order: 7

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by spaceace76 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:03 pm

leadguy wrote:I think all pedals are expensive no matter what's in them,
The Electro Harmonix LPB 1 only has one transistor in it.
that's basically it. it's not so much the parts count, it's the time and effort it takes to complete the package. for a larger pedal company that does things in bulk, everything is cheaper. For a small time business that wants to be a marketable alternative to cheaply made, mass-produced pedals, it's more expensive.

if you've ever soldered before, an EP-Pre is very simple to put together. there's a schematic drawn by Peter of ClinchFX himself in the thread leadguy linked to. Just remember the original EP-3 preamp ran on 20volts, so you'll have to wire up two 9v batteries in series or use a charge pump, for best results.

User avatar
paulscape
Senior Member
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:51 am
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: in front of amp

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by paulscape » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:49 pm

spaceace76 wrote:
leadguy wrote:I think all pedals are expensive no matter what's in them,
The Electro Harmonix LPB 1 only has one transistor in it.
that's basically it. it's not so much the parts count, it's the time and effort it takes to complete the package. for a larger pedal company that does things in bulk, everything is cheaper. For a small time business that wants to be a marketable alternative to cheaply made, mass-produced pedals, it's more expensive.

if you've ever soldered before, an EP-Pre is very simple to put together. there's a schematic drawn by Peter of ClinchFX himself in the thread leadguy linked to. Just remember the original EP-3 preamp ran on 20volts, so you'll have to wire up two 9v batteries in series or use a charge pump, for best results.
Yeah think I'll skip the idea of having a FET system in the guitar...I dont really like the idea of routing a battery compartment to the rear or lifting the pickguard each time I replace a battery...interesting idea though. Ive been checking out the xotic pedal and might get that one day.
Eat 'em and smile

dnatronic
Senior Member
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:47 am

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by dnatronic » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:00 am

[quote="leadguy"]

There is no need to put it after the amp in a slaving setup for noise reasons.
In fact I'd say that the benefits of the Echoplex FET preamp on the input signal would be diminished by using the Echoplex after the amp in a slaving setup.

/quote]

It sounds like you've never tried an echoplex (or a Peter Clinch EP-PRE) after your amp . . .

leadguy
Senior Member
Posts: 2740
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 10:37 am

Re: How did Ed connect his Echoplex in front of his Marshall?

Post by leadguy » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:28 am

The reason I said that is because the guitar signal gets's buffered by the FET before it hits the (first) amp if the FET is in front of the (first) amp so it changes the strength of certain guitar signal frequencies initially hitting the (first) amp.

If the FET is after the first amp then the initial guitar signal is not buffered by the FET before it hits the first amp and their is no FET effect on the strength of certain guitar signal frequencies hitting the (first) amp.

If the FET is placed between the first amp and the second amp then the FET buffer will be changing the strength of certain first amp output frequencies hitting the (second) amp and it's a different result to the FET being in front of the first amp.

Personally I would place the FET in front of the first amp because how the guitar signal frequencies are hitting the first amp is the most important thing tonewise IMO but others can do what they like, it's up to them.

Someone could have a FET in front of the first amp and also a FET after the first amp.
"When your swinging, Swing some MORE" ~Monk

Post Reply