The " attenuator-load " issue...

[leadguy]

Jeez, you guys have it all ass up as far as I can see.

Thanks Spaceace for a bit of logic.

I'm not saying I'm 100% right but some things are just not making any logical sense.

The custom fuzzbox thing comes from a Japanese interview that was translated by a guy named Dai on Plexi Palace and his translation? makes no sense if you read it.
Jeez how do we know how good Dai's translation skills are or for that matter how good the Japanese interviewers translation skills are.
Ever heard of lost in translation.
Another thing from a strange source that ends up just about taken as fact.

Rudy was doing bi-amping with Mick Mars and bi-amping is daisy chaining.

The first thing is Ed was loud loud loud.
Ed liked big stage volume.
Ed says this in interviews and that's why he has multiple heads hooked up for the 1978 world tour which often involved bigger venues and outdoor venues than the LA club circuit.
Ed had the 1978 PAF up very close to the strings trying to get max gain out of it and this is another thing pointing to the amps basically being stock and just thrown together for the 1978 world tour.
Ed had a Eruption/YRGM amp quick changeover with different signal chains, so basically 2 sets of 3 daisy chained amps are used on the 1978 world tour with an optional 3rd set.
Ed basically says the amps are configured this way in the 1978 interviews.
The 1978 rig was just thrown together.
The 1979 rig was more planned and designed in a different way.

Ed said he patched the amps together when he was talking about the 1978 rig and patched together basically means daisy chained.

There are differences from Ed's 1978 and 1979 rig. The 1978 rig is daisy chained in groups of 3 amps like Ed said in 1978 interviews and the 1979 rig is a amp switching system just like Ed said in 1979 interviews and is not really daisy chained but all the amps seem to be controlled by a master switcher.

In the 1978 rig you can follow the daisy chained amp leads.
One amp is the end and has one lead into the input and then that goes to the second amps input which also has a out lead from another input and then this out lead goes to the third amp which also has a input from Ed's signal chain.

1 lead -> 2 leads -> 2 lead

Classic 3 amp daisy chaining and Ed has 2 groups of amps with this 3 amp daisy chaining lead setup.

ROBIN L. makes no sense at all and I think he's got bits of the 1978 and 1979 mixed up and then covered in his slaving agenda.

Anyway if some of you guys want to believe in pixies and stupid tricks and strange guys on the net then ok.
I'm not posting anymore about it because I've already done it over and over again.


btw I made this post in another thread but I think it's relevant here and no slaving was involved.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

what u are hearing is a Variplex Dave Friedman loaned me... panned hard right, with a bit of verb and the requisite proper efx in front of the amp (EVH flanger, one delay at about 100 ms and another around 300).. variac at 90. I had to use an attenuator (Komet) down relatively low, so as to not bug the neighbors...

oh and the amp has original Sylvania 6CA7's in it

With regards to the recording, I used a 57 and maybe one other mic blended in a bit (I can't remember what, maybe a ribbon but i don't remember).. mic pre was a UA 610.

I think I used a bit of boost from an MXR 6 band blue eq... hard to remember. I'd say the 610 isn't a necessity, but it is what VH used, so... probably helps. I mostly use API mic pres for electric these days....

Using a g12h30 speaker in a bogner 1x12 w. Its a suhr guitar not sure what suhr pickup. Dave

eventide time factor- on the tape delay setting, using a 100 ms delay, and another around 300ms... you need a bit more slap (100) than the longer one, just use a touch of the 300 ms, enough to make that Am chord sound rhythmically correct...

he regular variac was used because then you get the effect of the heater voltage dropping too... Dave can explain better. And yes I used an airbrake and amp was at 8 ohms.... and yes amp was biased at 50ma with the variac set at 90v

To answer a few things the heaters dropping with the variac is a huge tone thing. At one point I had a filament transformer hooked up to a variac to see what effect the heaters dropping had on tone. Well it was a lot, also if you want to use it right you should bias the amp while at 90 volts. The variac that comes with the amp is more for vol then anything. Dave

As far as the bias variac was at 90v and then it was biased to 50ma which then gives you a plate voltage of 325 to 350 if the power transformer is speced with the right current. Remember these readings are for a 50 watt not a 100 watt. Dave


http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... 3&start=75" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just did a quick Spectrum Analysis of the sinasl1 ATBL opening (right channel) and Ed's original ATBL opening (left channel).

Except for the real low end around 90Hz which is not a big deal, they are very similar.

sinasl1 is not using JBL's so he must have EQ'ed that in or maybe it's just the speaker that he was using.

Ed is channel 1 or the top graph and sinasl1 is channel 2 or the bottom graph.

[Ralle]

So what was he ( Robin L ) talking about when he mentioned that load box in the -78 tour?

[vanhalen5150]

From the Bradshaw interveiw I always understood that Ed prefered the resistor type load as opposed to the speaker as a load the way Bradshaw described it. It seemed as though Ed was already using it before Bradshaw got him to try an iso speaker/cab as a load. Bradshaw stated he thought Ed was crazy for thinking the the power resistor sounded better than Bradshaw's speaker load system.

[leadguy]

So what was he ( Robin L ) talking about when he mentioned that load box in the -78 tour?

He made it up so you would have to ask him.

btw ROBIN L. seems to have been from England and also likes Randy Rhoads enough to buy a Randy Rhoads amp in England from the Marshall factory which I presume he will be using in a slaving setup.

Ed was using the Bradshaw load resistor and didn't want to change to the speaker load because his wireless was affected or something like that, I can't remember, it just sounded like Ed did not really want to use the speaker load at that time but then he did later.

Doesn't mean that Ed was using a load before Bradshaw though.
Ed could have been using the Bradshaw load for years before Bradshaw tried to introduce a speaker load.

It's interesting that when we have verified accounts of Ed actually SLAVING with Bradshaw that hardly anyone seems that crazy about his slaved tone

[vanhalen5150]

He was also using different amps, effects and guitars for the Bradshaw years.

[Good Guest]

One thing is for sure there is way too much conjecture on this whole loading business...I have to rely on what Ed himself has said or Mark C says for fact over an internet forumite when it comes to history. .....people will believe what they want anyways. But yeah Ralle should have a pretty good handle on how to bring the volume down on his rig..No.

[leadguy]

Translated from Japanese by Dai (in brackets) and my comments in between.

These articles are from Young Guitar I think, and are the ones with the Japan 1978 and 1979 Ed gear photos.


Ed is talking about his 1978 rig

(Some of the text around the P-1, etc. pics
"I have lots (of amps), but they're mostly Marshalls. Tube amps. They've been customized and have voltage generators hooked up to them.")

Ed says he has Marshall's and they have variacs hooked up to them.

("The cabinets are also by Marshall, and I use 6 of them. They're grouped in threes, and one set is for a spare. Of the three stacks, the bottom three are the ones I use, and the 3 top halves are the backup. If you wanna know why I use the bottoms, it's so my ears aren't destroyed. Of course I use earplugs.")

Ed says he uses 6 bottom cabs in groups of 3 ie 2 sets of 3 daisy chained heads with each head connected to a bottom cab.
The top cabs are for backup.
He uses the bottoms because they are lower than ear level and it just shows how loud the stage volume is, otherwise he wouldn't really need to do this but he might also prefer the bottom cabinets.

NO SLAVING, with each head having it's own cabinet.

2 sets of 3 daisy chained heads because of the Eruption/YRGM changeover different chain setups.
Also there is a last resort backup of a further 3 heads.

The Japan 1978 photos show the same thing.

Ed has explained this 1978 rig in other interviews as well.

Ed is now talking about the 1979 rig

("My rig is mostly the same as last year ('78), but the speaker cabinets are different. They were designed by myself and Rudy Leiren, my guitar tech and built by Flagg Systems. They have 12 inch Celestions in a closed cab so they're like Marshalls, but they're built with considerations to cartage and ease of wiring, so they're great for touring with."
"The heads (pic P-5) are Marshall, but the internals are pretty different. Me and Rudy customized them doing this and that. By using the amps in various combinations, we can go from 50 to 1,200 watts of power.")

This is the new 1979 amp switching system that is the same system that Ed mentions the "stick of dynamite" up at the fuse holder sucking off 10 volts in other interviews.

(Me and Rudy customized them doing this and that.)

ie "stick of dynamite" up at the fuse holder sucking off 10 volts ie a built in variac.

(By using the amps in various combinations, we can go from 50 to 1,200 watts of power.")

The new switching amp system that can have any number of heads on or off.

(The Boss graphic EQ (GE-10), the main Echoplex, and a customized fuzz box, and a back-up Flanger are all stock, but the ones on stage were worked on by Rudy (pic P-6). (from a 1978 "Young Guitar" magazine interview).
)

This makes no sense and I think there is some translation problem.

(a customized fuzz box, are all stock)

Does not make any sense.


http://www.vintageamps.com/plexiboard/v ... zz#p157240" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

by Dai on Sun Jul 06, 2003 12:55 am

Some of the text around the P-1, etc. pics
"I have lots (of amps), but they're mostly Marshalls. Tube amps. They've been customized and have voltage generators hooked up to them."

"The cabinets are also by Marshall, and I use 6 of them. They're grouped in threes, and one set is for a spare. Of the three stacks, the bottom three are the ones I use, and the 3 top halves are the backup. If you wanna know why I use the bottoms, it's so my ears aren't destroyed. Of course I use earplugs."
"Of the six cabs, two cabs have two Celestions-- which normally come with Marshalls--and two JBLs--four speakers each (cab). The other four cabs have four Celestions each. The Celestions for dirty, and the JBLs for cleaner sounds. So with that combination, they blend together to get a kick ass sound. On stage of course, eveything is cranked (all the way up).

Then, nothing new, some (apparently incorrect)comments on his variac (turning up) and how they found the clean/dirty speaker mix interesting, and how maybe that related to his later stereo setup with center dry+L/R efx. One interesting comment about how there are some bootleg recordings where it sounds as if the amp blew up. Then lists his old efx. rig (MXR stuff), and a bit of speculation about the "1" and "2" boxes. "E.D. Von Halen" (some guy from a VH tribute band) speculates that the "1" box was probably a switcher for the MXR EQ, since that model didn't come equipped with a footswitch. And the Echoplex footswitches are already visible and accounted for. He isn't sure what the "2" box is, but guesses that they were send/return switches of some kind or amp switchers. Asked what else he thought was interesting, he says, "the Phase 90 knob setting can't be right". "He must have had it up to 10 O'Clock when he used them. But if you mess with the inside--on a Phase 90, if you turn the internal trim pot, you can change the oscillating frquency. But even if you turn it to get a stronger effect, it still doesn't go far enough to the strength of the effect on EVH's early stuff. If you listen to early bootlegs, the phase effect is pretty strong. So possibly, some of the resistors inside may have been changed." EVH'S statements at the time remarked that instead of using the Phase 90 as a modulation effect, he was using it as more of a treble booster for solos.

On Van Halen's second Japan tour in '79, there weren't any apparent changes in the effects rig, but he brought a larger scale amp/cabinet system. "This time we brought the exact same sound and lighting system as we used in the States. It's probably at least five times as big."
"My rig is mostly the same as last year ('78), but the speaker cabinets are different. They were designed by myself and Rudy Leiren, my guitar tech and built by Flagg Systems. They have 12 inch Celestions in a closed cab so they're like Marshalls, but they're built with considerations to cartage and ease of wiring, so they're great for touring with."
"The heads (pic P-5) are Marshall, but the internals are pretty different. Me and Rudy customized them doing this and that. By using the amps in various combinations, we can go from 50 to 1,200 watts of power."
"The effects are as before. MXR Flanger, MXR Phase 90, two Maestro Echoplex footswitches on stage, and a couple more (efx?) in the racks the amp heads are in. The Boss graphic EQ (GE-10), the main Echoplex, and a customized fuzz box, and a back-up Flanger are all stock, but the ones on stage were worked on by Rudy (pic P-6). (from a 1978 "Young Guitar" magazine interview).

'82-'83 Diver Down tour when he was beginning to use rack equpment.

Not much info on the tour equipment used for the third and fourth album tours, but in a '84 Young Guitar magazine interview EVH stated that for the Fair Warning recording sessions, he used an Eventide Harmonizer. A large change in his rig happened on the 5th Diver Down recording and tour, when he began using the modded Marshall mentioned on page 17 (at this point he apparently began to use the Variac to lower the AC voltage to around 90V), and it also seems to be the time he started using racks. Also changes were seen in some of his main effects, with new additions being an MXR Analog Delay, a Roland Chorus/Echo (unknown if an RE-301 or RE-501 but used mainly for the chorus). Also an AMS echo for recordings, and for touring, a Lexicon PCM-70 (for the delay on "Cathedral"), an Eventide Harmonizer (a 949 or H-3000), a Roland Digital Delay SDE-3000, a Rocktron Exciter/Hush II, and a Rane SM-26 rack mount mixer.

'84 1984 tour

Basically the same rack system as the previous tour with some apparent changes such as a Rocktron Smart Gate in place of the Hush II. And the mixer was apparently changed to a custom made unit built by Bob Bradshaw. An interesting aspect is the use of a Roland DC-30 Analog Echo on "Hot for Teacher" (the quiet part on 0'56 to 1'11 of the CD). It wasn't used for an echo but to maintain a constant change in lower and higher volumes as opposed to using the volume knob.
--------------------

ow my fingers hurt...

Dai
Dai
Baron

Posts: 3184
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:01 am
Location: lying in the harmonic marshall filth

[leadguy]

"The Boss graphic EQ (GE-10), the main Echoplex, and a customized fuzz box, and a back-up Flanger are all stock, but the ones on stage were worked on by Rudy "

I've been thinking about this and one of Ed's pedalboard boxes (Box 1 I think) is basically a customized fuzzbox ie customized into being a switch and it would have been worked on by Rudy and there is a back up Flanger in the Echoplex compartment.

[Good Guest]

"The Boss graphic EQ (GE-10), the main Echoplex, and a customized fuzz box, and a back-up Flanger are all stock, but the ones on stage were worked on by Rudy "

I've been thinking about this and one of Ed's pedalboard boxes (Box 1 I think) is basically a customized fuzzbox ie customized into being a switch and it would have been worked on by Rudy and there is a back up Flanger in the Echoplex compartment.

I've thought of that too..the big muff case and the suppa fuzz case or tone bender case...but the customized fuzz box off stage is stock...the one used on stage is modified. Point being there is more reason to believe he has a customized fuzz somewhere because he says so...

At the same time I could speculate perhaps he has a customized fuzz box that works in conjunction with a switch..not hard to believe ..cuddos for Eddy tho if he did place one in a differant enclosure with a switch to confuse and hide his secret.

All the great guitarists of that era had everything hidden and this guy had all kinds of custom stuff in his fuzzfaces. mostly ..you guessed it "customized fuzzbox's"..

Wonder what he did to his echoplex's? That were modded by "Arson" (the guy @ Valley electronics that rewound transformers by hand for Jose & Ed and was a master @ Echoplexes R.I.P.) .....Rewound transformers by hand ..I wonder if the same effect happens to transformers that are scatter wound as happens to pickups that are scatter wound by hand...There is something to think of...

[leadguy]

I must say that Dai's translation makes sense now but it's just the way the customized fuzzbox part came through the translation that was hard to make sense of at first.

Basically the customized fuzzbox is Box 1 on Ed's pedalboard and Box 1 seems to have been a fuzzbox customized into a Univox footswitch and a signal switch by Rudy for the Eruption/YRGM quick guitar and amp and signal chain switchover.
Ed is bypassing Box 1 and the EQ for most songs anyway, it's only on Eruption that he starts to use the EQ and Box 1 (the EQ and Box 1 are only used together) probably because of the Univox being in the chain for Eruption, this is how the 1978 DOTG pedalboard is hooked up.

Other things like the variac at 140v Ed has said elsewhere in 1979, and is probably true to some extent on some songs maybe around 1979 but Ed mainly used it at 90v.

The earplugs, well he could have sometimes used them.

I think Ed's main trick is playing loud enough to get that tone.

[uiovbged332]

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