Krinkle wrote:I don't believe most of what Ed says in interviews.
I know what you mean, and there are many people who agree with you. But I think you are making it harder on yourself if you immediately discard
everything that Ed says in the interviews. For instance, he said he used an Ibanez Destroyer to record "Running With The Devil" and he did. He said he used the unfinished strat with the Danelectro neck to record the "Women In Love" intro and he did...he used the Ripley stereo guitar to record "Top Jimmy" and he did...there are many instances where Ed is not 100% reliable, but by and large I have always found that he is open and honest about his gear...say 90% of the time. Sometimes he just says crazy shit for whatever reason-but I think he is usually right on the money. He may leave out a detail or two, but he seems to be the best source on his gear by far...certainly better than alot of internet rumors...
Krinkle wrote:I just go by what I hear. For instance, until proven wrong, I am completely willing to believe the WIL setup based on your clip. To me, that sounds pretty damn close.
Thanks!
I had known how to physically play "Women In Love" for at least 20 years, but I didn't zero in on the actual tone and guitar/effects until I read one of the unedited Steven Rosen interviews where he talks about the "Women In Love" intro and the particular unfinished guitar that he used to record just that intro with. (you see it in my montage on my clip in the pics from the VH II sessions in the Zlozower book) I also had some debate with some very knowledgeable players (including jimi22812) on another forum and we came up with a pretty good consensus on how it was done...
Krinkle wrote:However, once I heard this clip;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCZ7AVX6BtI&feature=fvst" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I was convinced that HAIL was recorded with the Frankenstrat. I couldn't quite get it clean enough with the SD59, but once I got the DSD, it cemented it for me. I'm actually shocked by how well that PUP cleans up. I could never get it to sound anywhere close with a regular Strat.
If you aren't convinced by my clip that a strat was used on "Hear About It Later" I would suggest trying it out on a standard strat (I assume you own one or can borrow someone else's guitar) as I have using just the flanger and the out-of-phase pickup position as I have described...also the standard strat is full up on the guitar-there is no clean up required because it is an overdubbed guitar dedicated to this sound. I think that the Harmonizer was likely used to fatten up the out-of-phase strat with MXR Flanger sound in the intro and I think that is why you may be perceiving the guitar as being something other than a strat...As the intro ends and the main riff begins, that is where the Frankenstein comes in. Listen to the isolated guitar track and it will help to hear the Harmonizer on the solo and the lead overdubs on the outro...(even though the Guitar Hero tracks choose to isolate selected segments of the overall mix of guitars rather than isolate all the various simultaneous guitar tracks)
[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zy1D0uH1ys[/youtube]
One thing that I would bear in mind when considering the tones is to use your ears as you say...also it is important to remember that the way an artist plays something live is frequently completely different than how they played it on record. On the Oakland clip it is likely that he
is using an Eventide Harmonizer and it's chorus settings-he is
not using the flanger for the intro in the Oakland video or anywhere else in the three clips from Oakland. For instance, it is common knowledge that Eddie played the Gibson '58 Korina Flying V on "Hot For Teacher", yet whenever he played it live he used the 5150 Kramer...and the 5150 Kramer sounds nothing like the Flying V on the original recording...
Krinkle wrote: I don't hear any octave on any of the leads/solos in HAIL, but do on the outro solo in STIL. A lot of people think that was done with a Boss pedal but I always thought that it was the Eventide, why use a Boss pedal when you have the high quality ET sitting there?
I think that anybody that thinks Eddie used a Boss Octave pedal for the recording of
Fair Warning is totally insane. For one, I don't think the Boss Octave pedal existed in 1981. Secondly, he already had the Eventide Harmonizer...why the hell would he use a Boss Octave pedal if it even existed at the time?!
Krinkle wrote:Once you get the PF and hear the H910 or H949 tones, you can immediately hear what songs they were used on. And I've found that it's a LOT more than I initially thought! But with different settings for different songs. If you're not playing and just listening, it can be pretty tough to hear a -0.998 detune, depending on how much you mix it in. But you sure can feel it, and miss it once you take it away. Then you change the detune to -0.995, mix it in more, and you get a very middle and bridge combined sound, like the intro of HAIL
. I'm convinced that the intro and verses of HAIL have Eventide and MXR Flanger, but that the flanger is turned off for the leads/solo.
I agree with you that the Eventide is key to the tones on
Fair Warning. I believe I can hear which songs and in which places the Eventide Harmonizer is used on the record...some obvious (the "Unchained" solo and especially the outro leads) and not so obvious (IMHO, the solos in "Hear About It Later")
Krinkle wrote:One question, though. Are you using the flanger settings that are shown just before the clip is played? I have a reissue and I have to turn my speed down to about 10 o'clock to get it to sound right. I hate to say this but maybe I need a vintage one after all. Anybody compare the reissue with the old one, I'll have to go search Youtube
The only Flanger I have ever owned is my original late 70s MXR, but I have tried the Dunlop reissues, (including the EVH) and I have to say that they sound close, but not exactly like the original. Some of the original MXR Flangers have issues and they do suck signal versus the newer ones, but in my opinion the real ones are worth it if you are serious about Van Halen tone. I bought mine for $60 at a pawn shop in 1988. I bought my original script logo Phase 90 for $20 at the same time...and again, the reissues and the modded ones aren't exactly like the originals.
As far as the settings go I would point you to the Dweezil Zappa interview with Ed from the 90s where Ed finally disclosed the setting on the flanger...it was the same for every song from the first
Van Halen album through
Fair Warning-"Atomic Punk", "Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love", the electric piano on "And the Cradle Will Rock...", "Hear About It Later", "Mean Street",etc. All the dials are in the straight up 12 O'Clock position. Ed said that there were no presets in those days and he just pointed them straight up! Pretty funny, but it's true. Try it on an original and you will be shocked at how you will ride the wave exactly like the records with this one setting. He would put duct tape over the knobs on the Flanger to prevent knocking the knobs out of this position in the early days-you can see it in any number of pics from the era. But the proof is in the pudding-get an original or borrow one from somebody and you will be right on every time...
Krinkle wrote:I hope you can drum up the cash at some point to get a PF, after hearing your clips, which I really like by the way (that was you with the LWAN solo, right?), I can see where you will go nuts with it. I'll try to do a clip of STIL and I believe that you will be able to hear that it was the Frankenstrat with Eventide detune, whether it was the H910 or the H949.
Thanks! I hope I can get enough cash together to get the Eventide PitchFactor and the new SpaceReverb too! That is my LWAN solo clip...I know that the outro solo of "So This Is Love" is definitley Eventide...