blue box mxr 6 band eq vs. newer mxr 6 band

[Santi]

Well I definitely agree with Nitro: The VH1 sound is different and more aggressive than VhII to Fair Warning. Whether is was the EQ pedal or something also I don't know...
Some people still say that by now, if Eddie had used something different on VH1, he would have said that;
I actually think that he's not saying anything cos after 30 years there are people still going after that Tone.
He knows that if it gives it away the legend will fade.... Maybe that's the reason why we don't know what it is.
And we go on and on.......

[leadguy]

If someone changes from a DiMarzio Super Distortion (or Mighty Mite) to a PAF, then that is a noticeable change.

It can't be proven that Ed used a Mighty Mite on VH1 by the current photos but the use of a Mighty Mite can nearly be proven for the Warner Bros demos which were by Ted Templeman and Donn Landee and just preceded VH1 by not that much.

It can be proven (or maybe nearly proven) by the current photos that Ed was using a PAF by early 1978 and also the MXR EQ.

Ed definitely had the MXR EQ for VHII but the MXR EQ for VH1 can't be proven using the current photos we have and neither can a distortion pedal or slaving or a high wattage resistor mod.

Also just micing an amp a different way can lead to a more aggressive sound than micing an amp another way.

A Mighty Mite into a Phaser and Echoplex and into a 12 series mid boosted dimed Marshall and then dumped into 1 cab which is miced as close as possible right on the cone and miced on the edge would not give a passive sounding result.

The 14k ceramic pickups can overdrive a Plexi and there is really no need for cascades or boost pedals to get a decent gain level.

Ralle found this out and maybe he might have too much gain using a DiMarzio Super Distortion with a stock amp but it's pretty close to VH1 in terms of gain level.

Some people say that Ralle's tone is very good but not quite VH1 but Ralles using different tubes and no variac, different speakers, and no phase or echoplex and he's using a Floyd and I'm not so sure about how he mics the amp and the powerbrake attenuator doesn't help and there are other problems in cloning an exact tone off a recording and Ralle is also going for the Warner Bros demo tone I think.

A 9k PAF will overdrive a Plexi if it's right up near the strings and used with Ed's gear but it will be cleaner than a DiMarzio Super Distortion or Mighty Mite.
A 9k PAF with a boost or a MXR EQ mid frequency boost will overdrive the Plexi somewhat more depending on a few things.

Describing all this in words is really inadequate, trying it out is the way to go.
It's all pretty simple really, a Plexi circuit overdrives when the input voltage into the Plexi is enough to cause the tubes to start clipping the signal and that's about it really.
The overall tone also depends on a lot of other things from the guitar/pickup to the amp circuit/components, effects. speakers and micing etc

[Tone Slinger]

Leadguy is on top of this,


I'll add this,


1) There at least needs to be a 'STARTING LINE' here on this topic of 'EQ's/extra gain, etc, concerning the VH1 sound.

Builders,players,, etc of a 'CORRECT' blend of SUPER LEAD circuit (basically late '67 to early '68 12xxx filtering,, along with the preamp spec of the early Metal faces, '69-'73) all KNOW, that this is THAT tone (VH1).

Cranking, attenuating, using VERY SPECIFIC MV's (NOT several cascaded gain stages, ala 'Hi Gain') can all get one as close as possible. Understanding this SEPERATES those at the STARTING LINE and those who failed 'QUALIFICATION'.

2) RALLE, ROCKSTAH, rGalpin, Strat78, Motrock, etc, have all gotten there and shown how that tone is achieved .

I would advise everyone here, that isnt into Marshall circuits, to possibly try out some other sites, to compare/contrast.

It is my opinion that anyone who continues to disclaim what a properly tuned Super Lead can do (VH1), should look into another section or something.

Some here, have been pushing 100 % kindergarten stuff (c'mon, learn some circuits,etc, maybe improve your ears and playing, and CERTAINLY know who you are dealing with here) thats so OBVIOUSLY coming from the mind of someone 'Caught in that '80's mind set of "How did Eddie get that Tone on VH1".

We all were there using those BS hi gain amps, having tried what our heroes said they used (Plexi's), and being 'dissapointed that the plexi sounded clean (We obviously didnt know how to set it up and run it then, 'cause of being spoiled to immediate gain, ala MV's). It's all a learning experience, that some havent 'experienced'......... yet.

It took me up to around '06(this forum) to finally realize that the simple truth of the matter is that 12ax7 gain, NO MATTER how you design/use it, LOSES the 'BROWN SOUND'.

[nitro]

Dimarzio Super Distortion,MXR EQ,Boss EQ,cranked plexi,variac,etc etc are not ALONE going to give you the Van halen 1 type gain-distortion,all the items I just listed CAN NOT achieve the egde-distortion thats on Van halen 1,if they did then people here and else where would have achieved that sound,Rockstah and Ralle get a great tone but its not Van halen 1,go listen to Van halen 1 iso tracks and then listen to Rockstah and Ralles clips.People tend to stay with in the so called "The is what Ed used equipment wise so we need to stick to it " thats the wrong way to go,people need to venture out and use your ears,did the studio play a part in recording,yes,so use your ears and add to your sound on what you think is missing,try many thinks not just what Ed used,thats where the problem is Eds BS.

[Tone Slinger]

Lets hear what you've got dude. I think it's outright 'disrespectful' to refute the tones of those you listed,. as "Not sounding like VH1".

Show me clips of yourself or somebody else getting closer than those you just mentioned, using hi gain amps or distortion pedals.

I mean really, do think a Fuckin' Alien or something gave Ed an amp to use on that first album or something ?

[Rich_D]

All great points and a good summary of the theories to test and try.

[nitro]

Toneslinger,dont play that desrespectful BS with me,are you still in diapers or are you a man,Im giving the truth and what I hear,ive been doing this alot longer then you and many others,I said Rockstah(Rockstah and I would talk many times by PM) and Ralle get a great tone but its not Van halen 1 sounding,if you think it is then you need to get a new ears,i dont have the means to post clips and if I did you would probably say it doesnt sound like the tone we are describing,so go change your diaper and stop crying.

[Tone Slinger]

If I'm in diapers then you are a fuckin embryo buddy .

[redozzman]

Well I spent about two hours last night listening to the iso tracks that are available from the first album,( mind blowing stuff every time I listen!!!!!) I will say this, no one has come close to those studio tracks, I also listened to some of the better live boots, and none have the same tone as the album, some are close but that raspy tone on the album is unreal, the later stuff VHII, WATF, DD, the tone changed with every album, none of those later albums had that exact tone, very similar but that raspy sound is not there! Maybe they only miced those JBLs in the studio, they were in the cabinets!

One other thing I noticed is that you can hear bleed over from the drum tracks of eds guitars and Mikes bass, they were playing in the room together, there is no doubt about that!!!

[stef]

Toneslinger then what original marshall plexi,or modded marshall have you heared that had the type of gain-distortion that Eds tone had,Eds van halen 1 sound has more gain the norm,when you listen to van halen 1 it does have what I call high gain,higher then a normal plexi or even a modded plexi.Eds van halen 1 sound is over the top crunch,you can hear it.Alot of the clips that I hear,the majority are marshall dont have that over the top crunch.

I've never played/heard an old 1959 (or 1987 - metalface or plexi) with sylvania 6ca7, variac, DSD or Super8, echoplex in a hard ash bodied guitar..Have you? If there is such a clip someone please post it...
I agree, it's over the top crunch tone, but before I try/hear the setup which is very close to VH1 I can't really tell...

[Good Guest]

I think what happens is a big over reaction..someone uses a hot pickup and goes THAT'S IT I GOT THE TONE....Then they get a good plexi and say the same thing..then they get an ep3 and say it again..then they get a mxr 6 band and swear again.. Then they TWEAK there amp to match what they do have ..right or wrong, get closer and add a variac and they really think they have it...cause Ed had a variac.


But remember they thought they had it 10 gear items ago..so go figure ..In actuality all they realy have is the knowledgethat all these items were used... and it all matters but seriously , just like Nitro said ..all these things have been around for years and no one as of yet has achieved the tone ..just pointer tones that say he must of used this cause it sorta, kinda sounds brown.

Gawd help you if the person can actualy play then they are sold on the tone regardless ...ie modded 2203 vs plexi placed in the right hands like selling ice to an esikimo.. you guys do know what an eskimo is ..

[vanhalen5150]

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[nitro]

Toneslinger you sound inmature kid that never grew up, I dont need to waste time on you anyway,it will take sometime for you to become a man,you will probably post back with some inmature kid reply.

[spaceace76]

I've never played/heard an old 1959 (or 1987 - metalface or plexi) with sylvania 6ca7, variac, DSD or Super8, echoplex in a hard ash bodied guitar..Have you? If there is such a clip someone please post it...
I agree, it's over the top crunch tone, but before I try/hear the setup which is very close to VH1 I can't really tell...

very true! nobody has tried the kitchen sink and posted a clip yet, and I don't mean the Friedman mod. Not one person has posted a clip of the stock 12 series with the right tubes, variac, hot bias, one cab w/ real greenbacks, and tried to emulate the post production. I don't know about you guys but I hear a ton of compression on the VH1 tracks. To the naked ear, his volume stays extremely constant throughout. You can still hear dynamics but the way his volume doesn't really jump around much other than for changes in the arrangement or mix says a lot.

There are lots of little things in Ed's chain that add gain, the pickup, the echo, speaker breakup, a hot preamp tube could help, the lack of a tone control at the guitar, if he kept his amp tone controls at 10 that would stop the tone stack from loading the signal down a bit, all that and the post production mic preamps, compressors, EQing, there's plenty of opportunity to squeeze that aggression out, and very few people at the time seemed to be doing all of those things at once.

we can do this debate thing forever, but until someone actually puts together the whole chain and gives it a try, we won't know for sure.

[vanhalen5150]

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