Official Feedback thread for the RWTD ISO VS. YOUR CLIP.

[Thorny]

This is the sister thread to the clips thread. Post feedback in this thread regarding the clips posted in the other thread.

[efraser68]

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[vh junkie]

Yes, but you are not allowed to post clips. Only, clips with alternating ISO/Yours tracks, per the other thread.

[unimind]

Posted my clips to the Official clips thread. I broke my clips up Ed then me, Ed then me. If needed I can reassemble them to be full Ed iso followed by full me. (?)

[fhn_lopes]

Unmind, I think the mic position in your clip isn't helping... Heard the celestion one, VH sounds way darker and havier, while yours sounds too bright and with some cascade texture (less compressed??) to it... Good tone though, try a different mic position...

[Good Guest]

Goodguest, what are the 3 different clips of??? I am lost. The second one, KILLER.

\
1st clip is the black page productions celestian iso or rather a tiny part of it..second clip is Me ..last clip is the same as the first ..I think this is the formula were supposed to follow ..Actually I think I wasn't supposed to add reverb and I probably shouldn't of as it sounds closer without it , but I hear this echo trail in some parts of the iso.

To me the key was placing the mic furthur away from the speaker(4 in)..that's when it started sounding OK..close micing was more like the JBL one but would be very difficult to get right without an eq...I'm actually questioning whether a JBL was used and it wasn't a close miced celestian and eq added later. I think they might of used the JBL for the reverb channel , reamping in a room with a JBL and mic but not the actual guitar amp speaker setup.

[guitar007]

Goodguest, what are the 3 different clips of??? I am lost. The second one, KILLER.

\
1st clip is the black page productions celestian iso or rather a tiny part of it..second clip is Me ..last clip is the same as the first ..I think this is the formula were supposed to follow ..Actually I think I wasn't supposed to add reverb and I probably shouldn't of as it sounds closer without it , but I hear this echo trail in some parts of the iso.

To me the key was placing the mic furthur away from the speaker(4 in)..that's when it started sounding OK..close micing was more like the JBL one but would be very difficult to get right without an eq...I'm actually questioning whether a JBL was used and it wasn't a close miced celestian and eq added later. I think they might of used the JBL for the reverb channel , reamping in a room with a JBL and mic but not the actual guitar amp speaker setup.

Are we hearing the top secret pedal in your clip?

[somethin'else]

Are we hearing the top secret pedal in your clip?

that's what he said, son.

Good observations on mic placement right out the bat! This could be helpful for folks going forward. Take your time with mic placement for sure. And even take the trouble to track variou placements to hear the range you have! It could mean a huge diff for your tracks, generally speaking.

I personally don't care how many toys one uses, pre or post. As long as you're on it, and judicious. It's hard to be producer and player at the same time, and easy to be too wet or too distorted. As long as yer havin fun.

I can't even hear the tracks yet cause we don't have cable at the new digs . Can only post w my phone. Tough to relax with em at work too. But I'll jump in, eventually...

[cary chilton]

Goodguest, awesome tone right there! What the fAAk haven't you been posting more clips???? That it is right up with Ralle, Ralpin, etc REgarding MIC placement, it can be very important. Magical??? Well not necessarily. All depends on many factors. If the room your in is a dead room -sounds like crap- and or your speakers sound is uniform throughout most postions, then it becomes a matter of more treble vs more low mids. However, if your one speaker out of your 4 X12 has a magical sweet spot, then mic placement is key. This is what Jim at Scumback is a freak about, in a good way.... burning through 100's of speakers 20000 dollars! to hone down to the honey! Then using those for his reference base for production. Anyway, besides that if you have decent room, you need to find where you think it sounds best and at what volume. Basically, where does it sound like VH recordings @ what volume. Standing waves, speaker compression, etc all come into play here. The closer the mic is to the dustcap or cone the less the room sound, the further away the more room sound. If you room sound is heavenly, use more of it. As a rule up to 8 inches away is still a safe area to poke around in. Going much further is still cool, if your the only guitarist in the song. Here are 2 coolio tricks: Get the best guitar sound as said above, stand back, start roughly half the room distance from the speaker, locate in the room left to right, then half a foot fwd to back where it sounds fullest, especially in the highs, and lows. Now get headphones on, use a mic of your choice(s) and explore that plane/matrix but without the guitar plugged in, rather, using your thumb on the trs jack to create a buzzing. Now listen for the phasing you explore pockets in the matrix. You could hear more bass or mid-scooping or more fizzy highs or dampened highs or mid-full etc If your sure, experiment: Maybe all your past recordings are too bloated in the mids ( low or hi-mids) so you think you found a mid-scooped pocket, set up the mic exactly there, plug in your GEE-tar and rip it. Play back and discover.... if it sucks balls, try another pocket. Another thing you can do is, point the mic 45 degree angled away from the cone but to the wall or edge of the cab, record and then add 10dB of 8kHz or 10kHz on a bell shape boost in your preferred DAW EQ. (you lose highs pointing away) This method your gonna get more room sound, so less reverb in the mix or at least mix it well. Another cool thing and mic blends, hear panama, the sound of a raging cab capture in another room away. Use the down the hall approach. Crank your amp in one room (works best in a jam hall etc) open the door half way or 3/4 or even 1/4 place a mic 10-20ft down the hallway where it sounds best, and at what height. Get that huge Defenders of the Faith dark guitar sound or great sparkly verb, depending on the room, hall construction etc... Also you can close mic at the same time for a blend of the two, if too outta phase, nudge the wavform peaks to match up.

Goodguest, what guitar, pu were used? Is this amp 50 or 100? what iron is in there? Your mxr mod 6-band in the chain?

[efraser68]

Goodguest, what are the 3 different clips of??? I am lost. The second one, KILLER.

\
1st clip is the black page productions celestian iso or rather a tiny part of it..second clip is Me ..last clip is the same as the first ..I think this is the formula were supposed to follow ..Actually I think I wasn't supposed to add reverb and I probably shouldn't of as it sounds closer without it , but I hear this echo trail in some parts of the iso.

To me the key was placing the mic furthur away from the speaker(4 in)..that's when it started sounding OK..close micing was more like the JBL one but would be very difficult to get right without an eq...I'm actually questioning whether a JBL was used and it wasn't a close miced celestian and eq added later. I think they might of used the JBL for the reverb channel , reamping in a room with a JBL and mic but not the actual guitar amp speaker setup.

GG - for me it sounds like your clip would really benefit from close mic'ing and no reverb if you want it to sound closer to the ISO. It sounds a bit hollow whereas the ISO sounds like our ears are right on Ed's speaker cone.

[Thorny]

Guys,
I've got a clip that's pretty good but I have some reservations about posting it. Some have stated that we shouldn't post a clip unless we give the amp spec too. I would not be able to give my amp specs for obvious reasons and so I totally understand if you don't want me to participate. I do feel I learned a couple of things in doing this that could help the rest of you but I would like some feedback on where everyone stands on this.

[Good Guest]

Goodguest, awesome tone right there!
Goodguest, what guitar, pu were used? Is this amp 50 or 100? what iron is in there? Your mxr mod 6-band in the chain?

Thanks but I don't think I'm anywhere near some for EVH chops that's for sure ..just a few riffs here and there...but yeah I agree the more clips the merrier...This is a made in China strat hardwood version with rosewood fingerboard , maple neck JB pickup ..no whammy but fender bridge...50 watt amp with 2 6ca7's...hammond power transformer ..seperate heater transformer (8 amp hammond) and a small OT transformer from an old plexi...no 6 band in the chain.

Your recording observations are pretty good, surely you must be studying audio engineering?

[efraser68]

Guys,
I've got a clip that's pretty good but I have some reservations about posting it. Some have stated that we shouldn't post a clip unless we give the amp spec too. I would not be able to give my amp specs for obvious reasons and so I totally understand if you don't want me to participate. I do feel I learned a couple of things in doing this that could help the rest of you but I would like some feedback on where everyone stands on this.

Just post the clip. I think most here have a general idea of what the Bray is doing and you know about the tubes, trannies, speakers, etc.

[Good Guest]

Goodguest, what are the 3 different clips of??? I am lost. The second one, KILLER.

\
1st clip is the black page productions celestian iso or rather a tiny part of it..second clip is Me ..last clip is the same as the first ..I think this is the formula were supposed to follow ..Actually I think I wasn't supposed to add reverb and I probably shouldn't of as it sounds closer without it , but I hear this echo trail in some parts of the iso.

To me the key was placing the mic furthur away from the speaker(4 in)..that's when it started sounding OK..close micing was more like the JBL one but would be very difficult to get right without an eq...I'm actually questioning whether a JBL was used and it wasn't a close miced celestian and eq added later. I think they might of used the JBL for the reverb channel , reamping in a room with a JBL and mic but not the actual guitar amp speaker setup.

GG - for me it sounds like your clip would really benefit from close mic'ing and no reverb if you want it to sound closer to the ISO. It sounds a bit hollow whereas the ISO sounds like our ears are right on Ed's speaker cone.

Nope close micing will not work on the celestian clip...no way and you can eq till cows come home ....if you got cows

If you examine the black page celestian clip with a spectrum analyzer or just use your ears you can hear that it's got major low frequencies compared to the so called JBL one which has lots of high end detail.

Low frequencies need space (distance) to develop in free air..for a full wave of say 250 hz to develop is about 4 feet..4.38 feet to be exact...in other words far from the speaker ...now 5khz which is pretty well where a typical cab starts rolling off takes .219 feet to develop....which is @2 inchs.....

You see Cary has touched on this as rooms and doors and the studio itself all ineracts with each other..virtually everything ..I probably just lucked out because I figured I could just stick the mic close and eq it ...worked like wipers on a ducks ass..but placing the mic furthur away was the ticket ..no eq required...for this clip anyways

[Good Guest]

Guys,
I've got a clip that's pretty good but I have some reservations about posting it. Some have stated that we shouldn't post a clip unless we give the amp spec too. I would not be able to give my amp specs for obvious reasons and so I totally understand if you don't want me to participate. I do feel I learned a couple of things in doing this that could help the rest of you but I would like some feedback on where everyone stands on this.

Post it we all know what the Bray is all about we forgive you for not getting into the details..just like secret pedals etc etc..The Bray should sound good right out of the box (amp) and not need anything special to get the tone...prove me right!