John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL clone)

[Tone Slinger]

On tracks on VHII like "Bottoms Up" or even 'Light Up the Sky", you can tell that Ed's 12xxx isnt turned up all the way, letting that 5000pf bright cap do it thing. Gets that edgy trebley twang goin.

[rgalpin]

5000pf works in reverse: when the amp is dimed it is bypassed, dial vol1 back and you start mixing the dimed warmth and power with that beautiful sparkle and sizzle (RWTD rhythm tone vs. solo tone demonstrates this).

Could you elaborate on this? Are you saying to use a bright cap? I haven't had one on in years. Am I missing something if I pull the volume back 8 or 9?

taking the chassis out again.....

me too. this has me intrigued. i've never messed with that cap that i can remember. i took it off and never looked back. all this talk about the sparkle and dialing the warmth AND the brightness has me heating up the old soldering iron.

[Tone Slinger]

At 10, the bright cap is supposed to be bypassed (watch Georges video on his Metro builds (12xxx) clip (first one 'features'). Well if you DO NOT turn vol1 to 10, well you get that bright cap funk.

[julkke]

Yep, think of it like it's making your bright ch coupler smaller. All it does is to trim off lower frequencies, depending on where the volume is set. You can dial in bass tightness easily.

[rgalpin]

... You can dial in bass tightness easily.

yes, i added 5600p to vol i. very cool. i moved my response to a new topic.
http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=41580" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[fivecoyote]

On tracks on VHII like "Bottoms Up" or even 'Light Up the Sky", you can tell that Ed's 12xxx isnt turned up all the way, letting that 5000pf bright cap do it thing. Gets that edgy trebley twang goin.

TS, call me crazy but I wonder if that isn't the 3-pickup single coil guitar seen in the pics...though you still may be right about the amp....

[projectx102]

I've read that "Bottoms Up" was the single coil Strat.

[Tone Slinger]

Yeah, even with the amps volume back a bit with a hb'er, that "Bottoms Up" rhythm sound is still 'strange'. I also have heard about it possibly being that single coil strat in the staged VHII pics.
That second album has more slight changes in the guitar sound than the first. I think its due to some songs being the Franky without the eq box (DOA) and some with ('SGMAD', Beautiful Girls) along with possibly 2 tracks (basic rhythms) being the single coil strat ('Bottoms Up' and 'Light Up The Sky' intro to 'Women In Love')). "I've been under the impression that 'Dance The Night Away' and 'Women in Love' were done with the hacked Destroyer.

[rgorke]

For me, the VHI recording process is neither here nor there when it comes to dialing in how the rig actually performed in the studio at that time, and from my experience much of that first album had little significant tone changing post e.q., because those tones are simply what a good (or bad) 12xxx can produce.

That's odd - I don't recall you ever contributing to the RWTD ISO test thread. I assume since you essentially claim here there's nothing to getting the 1st album tone, you would have offered something there.

Do you have a clip you'd like to share with the board that gets close to the first album tone... say the RWTD ISOs?

Let's hear it.

I think your comment is a bit out of line. There are several guys here that have contributed both on the building side (which is what this board is about) and providing clips above and beyond many other members, pretty much nailing the VH1 and beyond tone, Strat78 is one of them. Just do some additional searching in other parts of the forum.

[stef]

He has showed us many moons ago... RWTD as well, years before the rwtd iso thread
Roger is right, use the search option

[rgalpin]

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... layer=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Go here and download the ISO clips (I could tell you to use the search function, but I'm actually helpful - unlike some):
http://forum.metroamp.com/download/file.php?id=13736" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://forum.metroamp.com/download/file.php?id=13735" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

good enough for me. i'd enjoy hearing someone articulate the differences they hear between:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... layer=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
http://forum.metroamp.com/download/file.php?id=13735" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with regards to amp tone (not recording techniques or the like). how do these two amp tones sound different to you? anyone?

[stef]

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... layer=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Go here and download the ISO clips (I could tell you to use the search function, but I'm actually helpful - unlike some):
http://forum.metroamp.com/download/file.php?id=13736" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://forum.metroamp.com/download/file.php?id=13735" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

good enough for me.

+1

[rgalpin]

... Ed has a thicker/more compressed, harder and hairier tone.

A lot of dudes here are getting great live tone, but very few are actually attempting to take it a step beyond and replicate the album tone as found on the album.

Let's not confuse "live tone" with "album tone"... "album tone" is "live tone" with extra mustard.

“I was told by Michael Anthony personally that Ed’s tone in the studio for VH1 was not all of the glory we hear on the record. He said it was very shrill and trebly, and that is why Ted [Templeman, producer] and Don [Landee, engineer] had to pan him hard right on rhythm and hard left on leads, soak it in verb – and there is a ton of verb on there – along with some pretty damn creative EQing.”
...

Ed's RWTD ISO tone is really not that spectacular... I'd say it's ho-hum. What Ted and Donn did to it on the album, however, is genius.

...

If you are attempting to get an amp tone that allows you to enjoy the vibe you hear on VH I in your bedroom, it will take you on a path that does not resemble what ed did.

According to the MA quote above, the amp tone that was at the core of VH I was "very shrill and trebly."

So, if you want exact VH I clips, start working on getting an irritating trebly shrill tone and then bury yourself in ProTools post production to fix it. Now you are on the path that led to VH I tone. have fun with that!!

If the MA quote is true, then that's why we never heard that album tone again. It was a band aid on a treble-fest experiment. Let the ghost chasing begin!!

HOWEVER...

If you listen past the post production, which takes imagination, patience, and speakers that surpass your average crap computer speakers, THEN you can start listening for the nuances that you love in those tones and create your own experiment to try and capture those nuances or response, openness, hardness, hair, compression... and go for a tone that has those things but isn't a treble-fest disaster in your bedroom or on stage for that matter.

Do you consider the ISO tone a representation of the ALBUM tone or the LIVE tone? It certainly isn't trebly and shrill, so if the MA quote is accurate, we can assume that these ISOs are heavily produced already and that we really have no example of the "live tone" that was used to create the "album tone" on VH I.

Now... back to the Band on the Run bonus tracks on disc 3... Let me roll it...

[efraser68]

I can tell from the '78 England boot that his tone/rig was intact, not shrill on the high end, plenty of saturation, and close to the album tone for sure. That's a tone to chase! Maybe it was shrill to MA hearing it in such a small place

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BCwtJ_3p8Y[/youtube]

[rgalpin]

I can tell from the '78 England boot that his tone/rig was intact, not shrill on the high end, plenty of saturation, and close to the album tone for sure. That's a tone to chase! Maybe it was shrill to MA hearing it in such a small place

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BCwtJ_3p8Y[/youtube]

crazy good. haven't heard that in a long time. thanks for posting. no post production tricks here.

but if you took that tone and close mic'd it, and ran it dry up the middle and you were listening in headphones as you are laying down tracks, it might just shred your ear drums and sound pretty trebly and nasty - could be where the MA quote came from.

Now... back to stormin' the castle.