Low volume micing

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:30 pm

What do you guys prefer for micing low volume guitar for fiddling around at home. I had some decent mics once upon a time. All I have is a 57 and 58 now and I just dont think they cut it. I was thinking maybe a Senn 421 or maybe some decent SP condensor.

NitroLiq · Post by **NitroLiq** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:48 pm

It depends what your having problems with I'd imagine. What kind of Preamp are you running through? Compressor? For myself, I'm leaning towards a used Rode NTK tube mic for home recording (that will be the next mic purchase). If I could afford a bit more, I'd go for a used AKG 414 TL-II. I've heard good results with some of the Shure KSM series (32, 44, etc).

Myopic Void · Post by **Myopic Void** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:51 pm

Go 421...it's going to give you more fullness. I have used them on bass drum, bass, 4x12 cabs, vocals...it excels in many areas. 2-3 bills should get you a good one...

Cheers,

Eric

NY Chief · Post by **NY Chief** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:15 pm

That's not what I think I see in your pic there, Eric...

That a Nueman on the end?

St August · Post by **St August** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:33 pm

For low volume I use a Studio projects TB-1 any other time I use a 57,
However 421's are on my Christmas List

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:47 pm

NY Chief wrote:That's not what I think I see in your pic there, Eric...

That a Nueman on the end?

My Buddies Rode tube mic looks like the one in the pic. That or a SP condensor maybe? They all look the same. They all try to look like a Nueman Ill bet.

NY Chief · Post by **NY Chief** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:41 pm

Billy Batz wrote:
NY Chief wrote:That's not what I think I see in your pic there, Eric...

That a Nueman on the end?
My Buddies Rode tube mic looks like the one in the pic. That or a SP condensor maybe? They all look the same. They all try to look like a Nueman Ill bet.

Oh, yeah, Dan. They all try to look like the Nueman, but if I know Eric and that other great vintage gear he's got....

Myopic Void · Post by **Myopic Void** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:20 pm

NY Chief wrote:That's not what I think I see in your pic there, Eric...

That a Neumann on the end?

Brother Chief-------------> It is a June 1970 Neumann U87 I bought from Bearsville Studios NY. They had about 8 of them for sale..you know this one has some stories to tell living in that studio for 36 years

. I am going to get a 2nd soon. I want use them for overheads and bass.

...I know it's not what they are commonly used for today, but you will find them employed live often in 70's on Marshall cabs... Humble Pie, The Who (Isle of White), Hendrix etc... They came on the market in 1967 as the successor to the U67. The older ones can take the higher SPL. On cabs this U87 can give the Royer 121 a run for it's money when set up just right.

Cheers,

Eric

45auto · Post by **45auto** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:17 pm

i could use a good answer to this question as well. ALL of my playing/recording is going to be at LOW volume unfortunately. i think i need to experiment some using the 57 close & my rode nt1 back a bit. using the two mics seemed to give some body not otherwise there. i end up using the damn emulator most od the time, & that's just sinful with these great amps sitting doing nothing!

NitroLiq · Post by **NitroLiq** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:59 pm

This is a little experimental but you could also try putting the rode at the back and to the side of the cab (like the upper left corner area of a 4 x 12 cab) to pick up some bass response. We did this in the studio once with a U-87 with decent results. That being said, I don't think I'll ever change my view though that if you're in a small space and have to record at lower volumes, use a smaller wattage amp that you can crank or at least run through an attenuator. Save the 100 and 50 watters for stage. I mean Clapton was playing through a cranked Fender Champ on Layla...Page's stairway to heaven solo...a cranked supro...Black Dog rhythm...multi-tracks straight into overdriven mic pres. Obviously, this won't work if you're trying to record clips of your metro builds.

If that's the case, I would pull a tube pair and if it's still too loud, attenuate it. If the attenuator has a line out...bonus...if not...one of those Palmer PD-1 things to the recorder might be useful. You could also try building an isolation booth for the speaker cab/mic. You won't get the room sound but you'll be able to crank it and get the goods without the neighbors banging down your doors.

I've had the damndest time trying to record my 36w Marshall build...absolutely brittle at low vols....hates pedals at that volume also. Will probably try to build an attenuator at some point to try it. Still waiting to see how it sounds cranked (which will be happening at the end of the month when I bring it to a friend's industrial space)...from the few notes I was able to play at volume, the recordings sound much better....it just needs to be cranked.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:40 pm

You know I was with you with the smaller amps for a while Nitro but now with a good attenuator the fact is I can get great low volume cranked sounds better form my marshall then with a smaller amp. Or Ill say I can get natural cranked sounds form both, if not perfect, so choose the one with the sound I like better. It stands to reason there should be a decent way to record it the same as with a smaller cranked amp. But I think a dynamic mic, or a 57 anyway, may not be as good for very low volume as opposed to a condensor or 421 for instance. 421s are supposed to be the choice for micing smaller fender amps.

45auto · Post by **45auto** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:53 pm

i think we have that speaker not moving much issue. the condenser might sound better, must try.

NitroLiq · Post by **NitroLiq** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:56 pm

Billy Batz wrote:421s are supposed to be the choice for micing smaller fender amps.

Never heard that. I've always used 57s and 421s interchangeably but then again, when I was using them, it was in a studio environment and the amps were either cranked or at moderate levels. I understand what you're saying though and that's why I mentioned the attenuator as an option and the fact that I need one with the my 36w. I can max the preamp vols and keep the master down but it sounds like ass...all carbon and no beef. My original plan was to just keep it low and run a pedal in front of it but I wasn't too happy with the tone....could be my speaker combination, too (alnico blue/G12H). I'm going to try to get Mark Huss or someone to bring out their hotplate or airbrake clone at our next local gatherings to try it with my head...need to hear how this thing SHOULD sound at low vols.

I mentioned this earlier, if I had the money for it, I would scout for a used AKG 414 TL II and use that for low vol miking. I used to work for this producer out of his project studio in his penthouse apt.. He had a small isolated vocal booth and small 1 x 12" combo that we didn't really crank that much but the 414 was really nice for it...picks up all the nuances...very articulate. You can usually find them on the bay for $6-700. Right now I'm using a Shure Beta 57 for home doodling and it's pretty weak...I like the standard 57s better. When I get some cash, I'm going for a used Rode NTK as I've heard good things and good examples of it through a friend of mine who owns a Christian Label down in FL. He used a couple for vocals and guitar on a local Christian power pop/punk band...sounded killer. At low vols? Not sure but I want to try it. I've heard good things about the Shure KSM series (for home recording scenarios) as well (KSM32, 44, etc).

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:33 pm

Well Ive seen and been told a lot to use 421s on fender combos when almost everyone says you cant go wring with 57s on a 4x12. I know everyone has different preferences for everything. Also something directional might help to kill the backround noise you get a lot when recording low volume. Thats why I was thinking condensor.

Bluesgeetar · Post by **Bluesgeetar** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:05 am

My understanding from David Paton and some other big folks I've exchanged some dialogue with is that in the late 60s and 70s the U87 is the shit and is used more often than not on many old recordings where you might think a u67 or u47 is used. Not so. Abbey was using the hell out of the U87 mics. got this info from folks that was there. So we all can't be rich like my ol buddy Eric!

So what is the next best? In some blind listening tests with some Abbey engineers, it could not be differentiated between the U87 and the Oktava MK319. Difference? About 4 grand in price! I paid $79 each for my two MK319. I don't know how much they are now but I love mine. Still would liek to have a U87 just to try though. Difference is that the MK319 can be modded for little coin to be much much better! I also have some Apex mics that are built around a 12A tube type that are super nice. Can't afford the old $30,000 Telefunkens. A few mods and a NOS 12A type she's incredible.

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Low volume micing

Low volume micing

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