M6 material and the like for trannies.
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slashsound
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M6 material and the like for trannies.
Hi friends, I wanted to know more about the M6 stuff and how some of you say its '' too good '' for certain Marshall amps. Can somebody please care to elaborate what all this M stuff is exactly. I intuitivly gather its the amount of iron in a tranny or something to the like...am i close?
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Cabbagebreeze
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Re: M6 material and the like for trannies.
Bump.
I too am interested what you guys think about M-6 core material.
Anyone?
I too am interested what you guys think about M-6 core material.
Anyone?
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flemingmras
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Re: M6 material and the like for trannies.
From what I've read, they're a more efficient material that's harder to saturate...more of a "hi-fi" deal.
Guitar amplifiers are not "hi-fi", and as such hi-fi is the last thing you'll want them to be. The poor circuit design, on top of the cheap transformers and parts that a lot of these amps were built with add tonal characteristics that are highly desired in guitar amplifiers.
Engineers for years have wondered how the manufacturers could "get away with selling an inferior circuit". From an engineering standpoint, these circuits are in fact inferior. There's a bit of imbalance in the circuit, cheap parts quality, etc etc. However, they're thinking in terms of sound reproduction. In sound reproduction, you want your sound reproduction equipment to be as clean as possible and you want it to amplify without "coloring" the sound.
However, with guitar, we're CREATING a sound to be reproduced by sound production stuff. The coloring that the "inferior circuits" and "cheap parts/materials" all color the sound in such a way that adds desirable tonal character to the sound you get from a guitar amplifier. We want cheap parts...we want parts that have drifted one way or the other in value...we want transformers without "Ultra-Linear" taps and made of inferior materials that are easy to saturate. Engineers think the idea of an amplifier coloring the sound of the guitar is absolutely absurd...but us guitar players love it to death.
M-6 material is considered a high end material and transformers made of this material are typically made for high end hi-fi audio gear because it's much harder to saturate than other materials, thereby keeping them from coloring the sound unlike the materials typically used in the transformers you find in Marshalls. It is for this reason that people say they're "too good" for a Marshall.
Guitar amplifiers are not "hi-fi", and as such hi-fi is the last thing you'll want them to be. The poor circuit design, on top of the cheap transformers and parts that a lot of these amps were built with add tonal characteristics that are highly desired in guitar amplifiers.
Engineers for years have wondered how the manufacturers could "get away with selling an inferior circuit". From an engineering standpoint, these circuits are in fact inferior. There's a bit of imbalance in the circuit, cheap parts quality, etc etc. However, they're thinking in terms of sound reproduction. In sound reproduction, you want your sound reproduction equipment to be as clean as possible and you want it to amplify without "coloring" the sound.
However, with guitar, we're CREATING a sound to be reproduced by sound production stuff. The coloring that the "inferior circuits" and "cheap parts/materials" all color the sound in such a way that adds desirable tonal character to the sound you get from a guitar amplifier. We want cheap parts...we want parts that have drifted one way or the other in value...we want transformers without "Ultra-Linear" taps and made of inferior materials that are easy to saturate. Engineers think the idea of an amplifier coloring the sound of the guitar is absolutely absurd...but us guitar players love it to death.
M-6 material is considered a high end material and transformers made of this material are typically made for high end hi-fi audio gear because it's much harder to saturate than other materials, thereby keeping them from coloring the sound unlike the materials typically used in the transformers you find in Marshalls. It is for this reason that people say they're "too good" for a Marshall.
There's just that fine line between stupid and clever - Nigel Tufnel
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Ingo_G
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Re: M6 material and the like for trannies.
Hello
Don´t forget, that the first OT´s in Marshall amplifiers, the RS Deluxe, has had an M6 core material. If this was too good for this amplifier, I don´t know, it became very famous. Even I don´t know, how much the aging of the material take effect on the sound, but there is no doubt, that there is an effect.
Regarding the production of M6 material there was a major changing in production. The isolation of the material had changed. In the 70´s the carlite coating for M6 material became standard. Before the oxidation of carbon on the steel surface by the oxidizing gases was used as isolation and these laminations looked very black instead to the newer ones, which are grey on their surface.
@slashsound
British electrical steel was never classified in M-xx. They used the names Silcor from 1 up to 4 and Vicor. Vicor was the material, Drake used in their Marshall stuff.
Kind regards
Ingo
Don´t forget, that the first OT´s in Marshall amplifiers, the RS Deluxe, has had an M6 core material. If this was too good for this amplifier, I don´t know, it became very famous. Even I don´t know, how much the aging of the material take effect on the sound, but there is no doubt, that there is an effect.
Regarding the production of M6 material there was a major changing in production. The isolation of the material had changed. In the 70´s the carlite coating for M6 material became standard. Before the oxidation of carbon on the steel surface by the oxidizing gases was used as isolation and these laminations looked very black instead to the newer ones, which are grey on their surface.
@slashsound
British electrical steel was never classified in M-xx. They used the names Silcor from 1 up to 4 and Vicor. Vicor was the material, Drake used in their Marshall stuff.
Kind regards
Ingo