OT upgrade suggestions for Re-issue

[GUITARmole]

Funny enough, its kinda like fenders are a little closer to what Im after. Like a twin or super reverb how they have the clear representation of the guitar. Maybe their circuitry has the values like guitarmole is talking about.

At the end of the day Ive got 200 dollars to make my RI step its game up.

Everyone knows the JTM45 is pretty-much a Tweed Bassman with a closed back cab and 12" Celestion speakers. What I was surprised to discover was that the early 100W heads ('67-ish) are essentially the same circuit as the high-powered Tweed Twin With that in mind...yes...their circuitry and the sound I think you're going after is like the early Plexis with somewhat lower gain, less fizzy, and fuller sounding. Some of the later live Hendrix stuff was actually Fender Showmans.

Another thing that completely changes the equation is your choice of speaker; you have the 75Ws? Personally (just my opinion some might love them) I freaking HATE those speakers and think they might be much of the reason you're not liking your amp right now. It'll cost more than your budget to replace them though...and setting your budget at $200 means you need to maximize your 'bang for the buck' and reinforces my opinion that you should hold off on the transformer for right now.

Lastly, it makes a difference whether you can perform the work yourself safely. If you don't know how to drain the caps, or if you can't solder well or have the tools it probably isn't a good idea to start out on a PCB amp.
You don't have your location listed but maybe it's possible to hook up with one of the guys on the forum locally and have them help you out. Like Billy Batz said, if you were in my neck of the woods I'd help you out no problem...you could also compare your amp to others and run it through different speakers. Maybe there's someone in your area that could help or do the work for a nominal charge??

I think all of us giving you advice are all pretty-much on the same page here too...George, Flames, Billy...what they all said is the word!

[mayrandp]

Everyone knows the JTM45 is pretty-much a Tweed Bassman with a closed back cab and 12" Celestion speakers.

I'm a kinda off subject but for those interested, I found an article by Ken Fisher where he talks about the differences between the Bassman and the JTM45.

(I've attained my maximum upload quota limit so I can't attach it. PM me if interested.)

[basile865]

Ok, first off, thankyou everybody again for helping me.

To give some examples I made a few recordings:

www.soundclick.com/robbasile

The first one I try to illustrate the "round sound" I've been talking about by picking slow, single-note runs in hopes that it will maybe show you what I mean by that round sound. Its as if you cant hear the wrapped strings and the unwrapped are still dull. The Mids are 2 Bass 0 and Treble 10.

The next two are jams that I based off of my recording on my friends '75 Music Man 410 (like a super reverb). Im aiming for something closer to this sound. One of the plexi clips is combined channels and one is just the bright channel alone. Even with the bright channel there is something so sterile sounding about the single notes.

Hopefully this will shed some light where I'm coming from.

It very well could be these lame ass 75 watt speakers. Let me know what you think.

[basile865]

anyone?

[basile865]

ANYONE!?

[rockstah]

in my experience between the two, mercury, and Georges heyboer's.

the heyboers are a slower acting transformer. great robust tone. it pours out thick.

the mercs are a faster transformer. when you think of faster or more modern players where they might need things to react quicker and be tighter.

i think someone would like and enjoy either of them. but some may prefer one over the other for sure!

i think only u can tell once its in your hands if its the one or not.

transformers make all the difference in an amps overall character.

[GUITARmole]

[basile865]

So guess what, I had a shop put in a new bone nut on my strat promissing it would stop my fretting out troubles. Well $125 later they didnt fix it! So now I'm back in my home town and having the frets redressed by a guy i know who will make it right. Long story short I now cant afford the OT cuz the first guy F***ed up. Fun stuff. I do feel however that my amp being too round sounding has to do with me completely removing the bright cap all together. I think I'll have an amp tech install the Heyboer OT and a 100pf cap. What do you guys think? The stock bright cap was wayyyyyyyyy shrill so I'm hoping a 100 will be safe for a strat player.

Oh and for those interested, I just got off the phone with Lord Valve, and for Derek Trucks Super Reverbs he recommends only Mercury Magnetics Output Transformers and Chokes. That and the DT-10 Weber speakers. Just a side note.

[basile865]

Ah yes, one more question which may be a dumb one but I thought I'd ask.

Would you say that maybe Heyboer vs MM is like Tube vs SS Rectification?

I recently played a Mesa Boogie that had a switch for Tube vs Solid State Rectification and I actually preferred the SS rectifier, even with warm clean tones. Im a relatively light picker and I prefer getting the response faster as opposed to having to pick harder to have the same output using the Tube Rectifier. If that makes sense? I still want fat warm tones with rich overtones and harmonics, I just dont need alot of presence or any more treble.

[sebastiano]

I think first you have to decide which is the cart and which is the horse.

For 80% of players, a few tweaks is all that's needed to make them completely happy.

About 15% have more refined taste and/or original examples of these amps to compare the RI to.

The last 5% are just tonally obsessed IMO. These are the guys who scour Ebay for accurate components to build replicas with.

This is all just my opinion of course, and your mileage may vary. But based on these thoughts I agree that suggesting an OT to someone who just needs better tonal balance is putting the cart before the horse.

When I make my suggestions, I usually take into account if the person is inclined to work on the amp themselves. And do some tweaking to find out what they like.

george

GOOD answer!!!!

Modern RI needs only some capacitor changes,to obtain a more sweet and linear tone than the heavy tone made with the stock capacitors (marshall use from years Arcotronics grey capacitors R82 series,is not bad but sounds very modern and heavy metal....);and other some minor changes in circuit path,like some resistor values,capacitors values ecc ecc.
But If one has good ears,can find some kind of differences between some types of different output transformers.The reason is that Marshall use for years the same transformers that use also for JCM800 and other amps,also for plexys.Plexy OT were a bit different souding,due to some minor changes in costruction and materials. I think that If Marshall amplification would replicate some of these gloriuos OT,he would do it well ,with good results.
But for the 80% of players,only passive components changes will tweak the tone very well!

[thousandshirts]

Its been a very hard tone chasing journey. I did clip the brite cap

You're right, clipping the bright cap can make any tone chasing journey very hard.

[thousandshirts]

Well $125 later they didnt fix it!

$125 and your problems still aren't fixed?

[Mars Hall]

I recently played a Mesa Boogie that had a switch for Tube vs Solid State Rectification and I actually preferred the SS rectifier, even with warm clean tones.

The next two are jams that I based off of my recording on my friends '75 Music Man 410 (like a super reverb). Im aiming for something closer to this sound.

Funny enough, its kinda like fenders are a little closer to what Im after. Like a twin or super reverb how they have the clear representation of the guitar.

It seems to me that you may be asking your amp to do something it's not designed to do. I can't speak about the Mesa Boogie, but the Blackface Fender tone is a mid-scooped tone. Marshalls are built with an emphasis on mids. This might explain your "round tone" problem.

I know your a college guy on a budget, but you may want to put this amp back stock, get out from under it and get yourself something different. I hope this does not come off as rude or condescending.

[Big Mike]

Would you say that maybe Heyboer vs MM is like Tube vs SS Rectification?

No.

[basile865]

Mars Hall not at all. I think its a good suggestion but I have learned how to work with this amp. After I got the stock el34's out, which I learned were beat to absolute death, I got a much more usable tone. Doing that and clipping the bright cap made this amp really great. Followed by putting in some custom shop 69 pickups in my strat, and acquiring a second cab to run at the same time really got me in the ballpark I was aiming for. Now the amp can sound thick, clean, articulate, and has a huge warmth.

But you're right about the fender/marshall thing. A fender sounds like a fender and a Marshall sounds like a Marshall. Always will. I like to keep the amps because each one has its own voice and tone that it excels at over the other.

Not to mention, I have since had a few good opportunities to play original plexi's, boutique builds, as well as a bone stock reissue at the store and had the reference points to see the progress I have made. A transformer really isnt in the cards for me at this point in the game.