Dagnal vs replica sound clips

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VelvetGeorge
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Post by VelvetGeorge » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:04 pm

There is a specific diagram for the Heyboer that is correct. The wrong diagram is in the 100 watt kit instructions. The text is right, but the picture is wrong.

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Post by Guest » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:31 pm

Ahhh, I gottcha.

I have been sitting here for the last 4 hours blasting these sound clips over and over...and over again. ( since the wife and kid are out of the house) and I just cannot seem to make up my mind as to which way I want to go!!!....Heyboer or MM for my SLP R/I.

They both sound GREAT and they both have subtle yet obvious characteristics. They both have that solid, airy tone to them in the mids that I like but the Heyboer seems to have just a little more "ummph" in the low end but I don't know that I need that since my amp has plenty of low end with the 68 board ( I keep the bass on "0") so I'm inclined to go with the MM even though it seems to sag more than the Heyboer in the low end and I don't really want much of that sooooo.....HEEEELP :) I'm putting in my order for one or the other tonight.

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Post by white room » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:33 pm

Well, I thought I was logged in.

FWIW: I love everything off the "For Those About to Rock" cd.

I like anything in the older AC/DC vein and my amp comes REAL close but it's still not quite there.

I'm really starting to think that a Heyboer is what I need.


UPDATE: Well I ordered the Heyboer last night and assume it will be here on Wed. Can't wait to install that puppy and get it broken in as I'm sure it will sound great ( gotta be better than the stock OT) :)

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Post by Guest » Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:39 pm

George, can you show a pic here of the correct wiring? Does it have to do with the Green Yellow and black on the Imp. Selector? And where does the Brown nuetral wire to?

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Post by tooloud » Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:31 pm

the brown common hooks to the output jacks......

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Post by white room » Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:52 pm

Ok....At the expense of looking like a dumb-ass ( in reference to my preivious post) I just found out that "sag" is only a by-product of the PT and the power supply and has nothing to do with the OT running out of supply current.

Sooo, In my last post I was saying that I what I was hearing from the sound clips was the MM sounded like it gave a tad more "distortion" than the Heyboer so my question is...

Now that I know what sag is, " what is happening with the OT when it produces distortion? ( other than it's being driven hard). I guess I'm getting more into the physics of it with this question. Hope I'm not making things more complicated than they really are.

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Post by VelvetGeorge » Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:06 pm

An OT has a range in which it reproduces the frequencies put into it accurately at the output. It's linear section if you look at a graph.

As you raise the input, you start to see non linear characteristics at the output. First the low frequecies will smooth out, typically.
Raise the input enough and the OT can't reproduce any of the frequencies accurately. This is saturation.
You can see how you can have any level of saturation depending on the input and the predominant frequencies.
Anything from a nice compression of the highs and lows to full on Van Halen.

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Post by white room » Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:56 pm

George,

Thanks for clearing that one up for me...makes perfect sense.

So, is this what is being talked about ( or one of the aspects) when people talk about new OT's being made ( or not being made ) to the "specs" of older ones in vintage amps?

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Post by VelvetGeorge » Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:06 pm

The saturation characteristics are more of a product of the vintage specs than a spec themselves.

There are many factors invloved with an OT. The wind, grade of steel, bobbin material, wire gauge ect. All of these things affect frequency response, efficiancy and electrical ratings. Not to mention the things that are not measured outright. Like how does a certain type of OT feel to play on.

You can see how much is involved in trying to recreate a classic transformer. That's why I'm so pleased with the Dagnall clone we've made.

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Post by tWreCK » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:03 am

George - will you be cloning the 2" Drake OT as well? Btw, who's making them for you - Heyboer?

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Post by white room » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:20 am

I just bought the 100 watt Heyboer ( it might get here today) and can't wait to get it installed.

Was the Heyboer copied after the OT's (Dagnalls I assume) in the vintage Marshalls?

I guess I'm playing catch-up on all of this TX info since I wasn't really that concerned about it until I started doing all of the upgrade work on my amp over the last few months.

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Post by VelvetGeorge » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:35 pm

Yes, Heyboer builds them. I've had the 2" Drake copy all along. It's the OT listed here:

http://www.metroamp.com/store/product_i ... cts_id=209

I'll change the title on the listing to say it's the 2".

The 1.5" Dagnall is the new clone. I'll get it listed soon. I've been waiting because I can't keep them in stock.

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Post by white room » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:19 pm

George,

I sent you a email about the 2" Heyboer 100 watt OT that I orderd and thought I was ordering a 1.5" OT....completely disregard it as it is my screw-up and I guess I just need to eat it.

I was in a hurry and had one foot out the door when I placed the order.

Any tricks to making it fit on a SLP R/I chassis anyone? I don't really see how myself without it hitting the power tubes.

Oh well, I guess I need to get the MM OT.

BTW: How do I go about ordering the 1.5" clone since it's not on the products page? Or should I just wait until you get it listed?

Chad

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Post by VelvetGeorge » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:38 am

Hey Chad, you're not stuck with the 2". I'll respond to your email.

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Post by white room » Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:34 am

George,

I replied to your reply.

Thanks again for your help and understanding.

BTW: I had already de-soldered the stock OT in preperation for when the Heyboer arrived and as I de-soldering the secondary leads from the impeadence selector the black, common wire just snaped off when my hand bumped against it and I looked at the joint and it had that dull, frosted look and I just thought " Hmmm, cold solder joint form the factory".
When I soldered everything back last night I of course re-soldered that connection and when I fired up the amp to check it I noticed the amp sounded a little more lively than it ever has before and I ended up sitting there for 45 minutes playing.

Could it have been that joint? Funny how MY screw-up transpired into a 45 minute playing session.

Chad

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