Gibby SG special faded...upgrade ideas?

[BAinFL]

I just traded for a 2009 SG faded. I'll be sending it in for a proper setup. Wasn't too bad off, but I'm getting a little bit of fret buzz if I lower the action where I want it. Anyway, I'll leave that up to an expert to sort out for me.

I'd like to overhaul the PUPs. Looking for opinions on some that I've considered and also the tonal impact/value of getting a new wiring harness.

First off, the stock buckers 490R/498T (I think thats the right letters...) are only so-so IMO. I like the neck position better than the bridge, but have room for improvement.

Secondly the volume knobs are 100% useless. I'm at basically the same tone from 10 down to about 2-3 and below that the sound disappeares completely. There's absolutely no "rolling back to get a clean tone" on either PUP. That's my biggest gripe about the guitar. Anyway, wondering if that's more a function of the components used in the wiring/pot section, or the pickups themselves, or some combination of both. FWIW my US BC Rich cleaned up perfectly and had a very versatile volume knob thru the same amp.

For pickups I'm trying to decide between High Orders and WCR. I love the Godswood and the Darkbursts, was trying to decide between them, and whether I could afford a full set or just a bridge and spending the rest to upgrade my pots & wiring components. Then I came across some mentions of the High Orders. Checked them out and WOW! Sound great and pretty friggin cheap. Only drawback is long lead time to get them...

Anyway, looking for advice from anyone who's been down this path before. I've been sitting with the same old guitar for the past 2 decades and never swapped out anyhting on it that whole time...so all this is a bit new. Appreciate any of your own experiences.

[Mars Hall]

I'd like to overhaul the PUPs. Looking for opinions on some that I've considered and also the tonal impact/value of getting a new wiring harness.

I have a faded SG that sounds great until you plug it in. Acoustically this guitar sings and has volume, I think in part due to the faded finish. The guitars are not weighed down with tons of clear coat, which allows them more resonance. The stock HB's sound high end buzzy and fizzy. I plan on swapping out the pu's, I have a couple of options right now, when I get to it.

The stock pots have 500k volume and 300k tone, so an upgrade there should give you some added control. Keep us posted on your project.

[fillmore nyc]

Secondly the volume knobs are 100% useless. I'm at basically the same tone from 10 down to about 2-3 and below that the sound disappeares completely. There's absolutely no "rolling back to get a clean tone" on either PUP. That's my biggest gripe about the guitar. Anyway, wondering if that's more a function of the components used in the wiring/pot section, or the pickups themselves, or some combination of both.

The stock pots have 500k volume and 300k tone, so an upgrade there should give you some added control. Keep us posted on your project.

Weird, cause I have 500k audio volume and 300k linear tone pots in my SG, and I have no problem with rolling back a bit on the volume to clean up the sound. Bain, I cant say for sure, but it almost sounds like you've got linear taper pots for the volume the way you describe the lack of roll-off, cause a linear taper volume pot would act like that, having no effect for most of the rotation, and then dropping off suddenly.

As far as pickup upgrade, it really depends which way you're looking to go. Im assuming that since you dont like the 490R and 498T's, that you're looking to make the guitar "milder", or more toward a genuine PAF tone, as opposed to the more hot-rodded tone of the 490R and 498T?

If thats the case, you've got a LOT of choices, my friend, and I dont think I've heard anything necessarily bad about any of the usual suspects making boutique-y pickups. Im NOT referring to Duncan or DiMarzio, cause any of the smaller shops seem to have the PAF formula down a little better. You might end up paying a bit more, but IMO, you're getting more tone for your buck.

[56goldtop]

The faded SG specials I've played have all been great! Light guitars with a woody tone.

I have no experience with WCR pickups, but I do with High Order. A few years ago I put High Orders in my R8 Les Paul. I think they were 60 bucks a pickup or something, VERY good price for handwound pickups! Jeff was a great guy and wound pickups exactly like I wanted them. I didn't order a certain model or anything, we talked through emails and came up with a set that he wound for me. I can't really remember the specs, but they were kind of like your ordinary PAF: Alnico 2, unpotted, 42 AWG wire, around 7,4K and 8,1K.

They are of GREAT quality, I have no plans of ever switching them out. The covers look great too if you're into that.

[SteadyEddie]

I'd probably change the wiring to 50's specs, which retains trebles better as you turn the volume down.
I think it's an easy swap on those guitars, and if you don't like it, it's easy to return to the modern wiring.
It also gives your guitar a bit more "presence" even when all the way up.

[BAinFL]

I have a faded SG that sounds great until you plug it in. Acoustically this guitar sings and has volume, I think in part due to the faded finish. The guitars are not weighed down with tons of clear coat, which allows them more resonance. The stock HB's sound high end buzzy and fizzy. I plan on swapping out the pu's, I have a couple of options right now, when I get to it.

The stock pots have 500k volume and 300k tone, so an upgrade there should give you some added control. Keep us posted on your project.

I think we see the guitar exactly the same way. I dont mind the neck PUP that much...esp since I just finished mt 12000 this weekend. I'd give it a 7/10 or something. But the bridge is just bad. Agree on buzzy/fizzy for sure. Odd thing about the pots is that both tone pots are very usable on mine and really give a wide tonal range from bright and open dialed down to a much darker and warmer.

Overall, I love the feel and sustain of the guitar. Its got potential to be a great guitar, but the electronics have to be overhauled to get me there. But for the price these fadeds sell for, theyre a steal. $499 used at GC seems the going rate. And I agree, something about their unfinished wood makes them actually sound fuller than the finished wood of the other models. A killer bargain imo.

As far as pickup upgrade, it really depends which way you're looking to go. Im assuming that since you dont like the 490R and 498T's, that you're looking to make the guitar "milder", or more toward a genuine PAF tone, as opposed to the more hot-rodded tone of the 490R and 498T?

I'm not opposed to a higher output pup, just dont like the tone of that particular bridge pickup very much. The best I could describe it is that it sounds very "tinny" to me. The sound is anything but harmonically rich, fat and growling. When I hit a power chord with a cranked marshall, I want to hear a hungry grizzly bear come through the speaker cab. For whatever reason, that pickup just can't deliver on that tone for me. The cleans, and the highs are equally uninteresting to me as well.

I'm leaning towards something in the 8.5-9.0 range for my bridge. Something that can get me close to my favorite hard rock distortion sounds, but also give me a nice open and well rounded tone when I dial things back some.

The faded SG specials I've played have all been great! Light guitars with a woody tone.

I have no experience with WCR pickups, but I do with High Order. A few years ago I put High Orders in my R8 Les Paul. I think they were 60 bucks a pickup or something, VERY good price for handwound pickups! Jeff was a great guy and wound pickups exactly like I wanted them. I didn't order a certain model or anything, we talked through emails and came up with a set that he wound for me. I can't really remember the specs, but they were kind of like your ordinary PAF: Alnico 2, unpotted, 42 AWG wire, around 7,4K and 8,1K.

They are of GREAT quality, I have no plans of ever switching them out. The covers look great too if you're into that.

I'm kinda leaning toward the HO...I have full confident in the product based on the many positive reviews here on Metro forums. From reading JEffs descriptions I'd probably go with an asymetrical wind 8.5-8.7. I love Pages sound, but would want something just a hair dirtier...a bit closer to Eddie, but not all the way.

I'd probably change the wiring to 50's specs, which retains trebles better as you turn the volume down.
I think it's an easy swap on those guitars, and if you don't like it, it's easy to return to the modern wiring.
It also gives your guitar a bit more "presence" even when all the way up.

Something just feels wrong to me about having a PCB in my wiring section. Just bad karma with a hand build PTP amp,a '72 checkerboard cab and a faded SG. =)

[somethin'else]

I'm leaning towards something in the 8.5-9.0 range for my bridge. Something that can get me close to my favorite hard rock distortion sounds, but also give me a nice open and well rounded tone when I dial things back some.

The faded SG specials I've played have all been great! Light guitars with a woody tone.

I have no experience with WCR pickups, but I do with High Order. A few years ago I put High Orders in my R8 Les Paul. I think they were 60 bucks a pickup or something, VERY good price for handwound pickups! Jeff was a great guy and wound pickups exactly like I wanted them. I didn't order a certain model or anything, we talked through emails and came up with a set that he wound for me. I can't really remember the specs, but they were kind of like your ordinary PAF: Alnico 2, unpotted, 42 AWG wire, around 7,4K and 8,1K.

They are of GREAT quality, I have no plans of ever switching them out. The covers look great too if you're into that.

I'm kinda leaning toward the HO...I have full confident in the product based on the many positive reviews here on Metro forums. From reading JEffs descriptions I'd probably go with an asymetrical wind 8.5-8.7. I love Pages sound, but would want something just a hair dirtier...a bit closer to Eddie, but not all the way.

I've got 8.3k neck and 8.7k bridge HO's. Weak A5s, Asymetric (PAF) winds, minimum potting. The best and more than all I need. If you want to nudge it a bit more towards Ed, and have 'em push the front end a tad more, I'd go like 8.4-8.5 neck and 8.8-8.9 bridge. Keep 'em within .3-.5k of each other, and just adjust the height for best mix. Oh, if you really want to get the bridge more towards Ed, ask him to go heavier on the Slug Coil. That'll wack things up good.

Jeff's raw nickel covers rule too. He can polish them to whatever shiney you want. These kill Burstbuckers!

Also, ask Jeff to send you an extra set of full strength A5s too, and maybe an A2, if you want to slap that one in the neck. The vintage degaussed mag thing is cool, and nice, but "back then" they were using brand new stuff, ie full strength?

HO HO HO! And he's right down the road from you!

[fillmore nyc]

As far as pickup upgrade, it really depends which way you're looking to go. Im assuming that since you dont like the 490R and 498T's, that you're looking to make the guitar "milder", or more toward a genuine PAF tone, as opposed to the more hot-rodded tone of the 490R and 498T?

I'm not opposed to a higher output pup, just dont like the tone of that particular bridge pickup very much. The best I could describe it is that it sounds very "tinny" to me. The sound is anything but harmonically rich, fat and growling. When I hit a power chord with a cranked marshall, I want to hear a hungry grizzly bear come through the speaker cab. For whatever reason, that pickup just can't deliver on that tone for me. The cleans, and the highs are equally uninteresting to me as well.

Im stunned that your 498T is tinny. Not that I chase the EVH tone, but my 498T sounds REAL EVH thru anything with nice gain, such as my Roccaforte or my Soldano. Fat as a bastard, great definition, and there's NOTHING tinny about it at ALL.
Im starting to suspect that something is wrong in your guitars wiring, bro. With the volume roll-down issue, and a tinny 498T??

That dont sound right (no pun intended).

[BAinFL]

Sorry my goof. It's a 490T and 490R. I dont mind the R so much but the 490T belongs in a Walmart $99 special.

And yes LINEAR volume pots according to Gibson:

Volume Controls

The SG Special Faded uses an individual volume control for each pickup, which consists of a quality 300k linear potentiometer for a smooth, natural volume roll-off.

Some work to do in the engine compartment. But still will be a helluva player with some tweaks under the hood.

[fillmore nyc]

Sorry my goof. It's a 490T and 490R. I dont mind the R so much but the 490T belongs in a Walmart $99 special.

And yes LINEAR volume pots according to Gibson:

Volume Controls

The SG Special Faded uses an individual volume control for each pickup, which consists of a quality 300k linear potentiometer for a smooth, natural volume roll-off.

Some work to do in the engine compartment. But still will be a helluva player with some tweaks under the hood.

Well, that explains THAT. You've gotta get audio taper volume pots first of all. 500k audio is standard, and the combination of them, and 300k linear taper tone pots is what comes in the Historic guitars to my knowledge. If the tone pots are linear and work ok, I'd leave 'em and maybe change the caps to .01 if you wanna play around with that. They're more usable IMO, especially with some gain.
I think the 490R is a nice neck pickup. That 490T is just "slightly" higher in output than the 490R, and to me, isnt a good match for the 490R, but the 498T is. This link to Gibsons site explains pretty much what you need to know, IF you wanna stay with Gibson parts.
FWIW, I love the 498T.
http://store.gibson.com/Products/Pickup ... 4AodPj9Y7g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BAinFL]

Thanks for all the good info Fill.

The Gibson site said the tone pots were audio and not linear...and to my ears they work perfectly shaping the tone.

I think I'm going to start with a HO bridge PUP first (along with new volume pots) and then take things from there. Not sure about the 490R...it sounds great on certain tones, like early Santana, but can get a little too muddy on some things. It certainly doesn't work well blended with the tinny sounding 490T in the middle posiiton.