the vintage tremolo tuning thread

[Doug H]

usually about 1 and a half to 3 winds.
'
I do this test I wrench the low e to get it as flat as I can then I dip the bar to get it as sharp as I can. In either state I then try to return the string to it's natural pitch by slightly pulling it out of the nut and sliding it back in, or moving the string across the saddle. I try and do this wihtout pulling on the string. When moving across the saddle the string settles down into the flat pitch leading me to beleive that most ofd the prob is behind the saddle.

Also the SS saddles seemed to help stability and I drilled out the low E on the block to be a bit shallower and that seemed to get the two pitches a bit closer as well.

I['m pretty sure I've go the headstock licked. Graphtech nuit and trees. I also spaced the trees a little higher with some rubber washers to lesson the tension through them.

To be clear, I can get away with a lot of aggresive playing the way it is now and stay in tune. But I still have to tune to where the bar leaves it. Better one string a touch flat after than 5 strings a mismatch of a bit sharp. It's only if I really bend the string hard that I can tell it's getting trapped somewhere. I'm really curious is the name brand more modern trems exhibit the same difference.

[Doug H]

I should mention in drilling out the low E channel I seem to have lost some bite on the low E. I'm guessing I screwed up the contour where the ball-end seats in the block.

[Doug H]

Well I just ordered a WV6SB from ebay, hoping it actually has a steel block. I figure I'm on a "bridge quest" so I'm going to end up getting a couple bridges out of curiousity. I also ordered a Callaham block. I'm curious to see how swapping it in for the block on my noname 6 holer (which sticks to my speaker magnets like glue) sounds. I'll eventually use it on my 60s classic I'm refinishing.

[Doug H]

Wilkinson wv6SB (something like that) arrived today. It's the 5+1 hole narrow vintage with Steel Block. They are going for a song on ebay these days so it was a shoe in. The block stuck like glue to a speaker magnet so I assume it's actually steel. I haven't looked at it close yet to see if somehting is stamped on it.

I've yet to try the bullet strings on the existing bridge so I'm going to do that first then swap the Wilkinson in after a few days.

I doubt I'm going to see any big difference in tuning stability with the bullets, other than maybe the odd string that doesn't randomly move a bit from reseating in the block. They are the guys that make the bridge though so who knows . I'm curious to hear them too, never played Fender strings, even though some of my "heroes" did.

[Doug H]

friggen' crackheads, why would they reposition the bar? I barely dip it and it's hitting the volume knob, you have to perform circus tricks to try and play something like eruption. The conspiracy theororist in me is wondering if this is a tuning stability feature, limiting the bars travel. If they can't use it then it won't go out of tune. Makes me nervous about looking at any of their other products. I'm gonna have to try and bend the bar somehow.

oh, I put the Wilkinson "vintage" lol, bridge on today.

[Doug H]

well some more on this.

I've been pretty good running .09 bullets and nut saycing the trem touch points. As an example, my g dips a touch flat from the g bender at the end of the into to ATBL, I have to dip the arm or the verse G triad sounds a bit off. I don't reaslly notice to much any other time, I just play.

Couple things, Callaham are right in checking that oval slot in the saddle to make sure there isn't another friction point there. I filed down my G.

I also th9nk I was too ambitous taking a drill to theplate to round off the holes.

First, only the top should require it since the string is on an angle and should only come into contact somewhere half way up the thickness of the plate.

second, I think a simple filing will do it. I flared the G hole out pretty bad with the srill making the angle up to the saddle maybe even steeper than it already was.

So I've got a new trem comng from Guitar fetish, brass block, vintage 6 holer. I'm just going to round off the holes in the plate with a file and then take a drill to the block and open the strings holes up a bit at the top just to make sure the strings only touch the block at the ball end. The plate hole will be end up a bit smaller than the block hole, spo that seam doesn't come into play, probably wouldn't anyway...

[azazael]

Its a little of topic but I never have a bit of hassle with my musicman vintage trems on my silhouette and supersports.

It is a 2 point design.
Supersport has modern saddles and Silhouette has the vintage type.

It might be worth having a look at just for design comparison.
I don't mean the 6 screw v 2 posts comparison.

It is in my opinion that Musicman have perfected the vintage tremolo and it can do anything.
When setup to float it blows any floyd rose i have played out the water.

Perhaps the key is something to do with the string pull design of the headstock and the locking tuners?

Have you toyed with the idea of 2 point trem and locking tuners?

I have a wilkinson 6 hole trem from GFS and another 6 hole trem from GFS on strat guitars but I haven't got them finished yet. Both have big steel blocks. Sadly now I see they are selling them with big brass blocks.

[Tone Slinger]

Yeah, The vintage Fender design, imo, sounds the best out of ANY bridge type. They get great volume and sustain, as well as a very musical attack. The problem has alway's been tuning stability, while using the bar.

After starting with the Vintage style bridge, and having REALLY BAD experience's with tuning, I quickly went with a Floyd equiped Kramer (way back in the 80's). Tuning issue was solved. Many yrs later, I realized how much BETTER the vintage 6 screw tremelo sounded. I have been trying for about the last 5 yrs or so, to find a solution.

Part of MY problem is my actual technique. I am playing the vintage tremelo like I would a floyd. The floyd really spoils the player. A Fender doesnt have the range, so one tends to really 'bear down' on he Fender to get a similar tremelo effect, thus forcing tuning issue's.

I can get ANY vintage bridge to stay in tune, as long as I am consience of it's limit's (I HATE this)

My goal is for unquestionable tuning stability. There's still a few things I need to try.



I know there are many 'vintage influenced' tremelo's out there. The problem with them is that they don't SOUND as good as the vintage Fender style. The 6 mounting screws. along with the steel block with the string traveling nearly the full length, is key. Any exception to this,imo. loses tone.

I use old EVH (especially the live boot's from the '78 tour) as a reference to how good the vintage tremelo's sound.

[jcmjmp]

When cutting the nut, you have to have a rounded slot that is smooth, using a file that is slightly larger than the string diameter you're using. I usually finish up the slot with 400 grit sandpaper folded in half (600 for the G string) to make sure the slot is smooth.

The other thing is the the string should be half in the slot and half out of the slot, not buried in it. You also have to angle the nut top so that it follows the string angle. The nut slot is also angled but just slightly.

I wish I had pictures of what I mean... I'll what I can find...

[Doug H]

Have you toyed with the idea of 2 point trem and locking tuners?

nah, I'm happy now, but I'm still curious to see how close to Floyd perfect I can get it. I don't think the strings garb at the top, I've got a graphite nut and trees.

[Doug H]

My goal is for unquestionable tuning stability. There's still a few things I need to try.

This guitar I can get away with a lot of abuse. the nice thing is it never really get's too out of pitch, always looking to get it closer though.

[azazael]

Have you tried using threaded inserts on the neck?

I think regardless of having a truss rod that the pressure variable of using a tremolo could have potential tuning issues related to a slight movement in the neck pocket. I think having a mechanical aid there to ensure a tight fit and zero movement rather than relying on wood alone would be a cheap upgrade and would rule out one slight possibility.

Also ensuring the screw holes in the body are tight also would be a good idea.
I think if a screw had room to breathe in there it could cause some problems also.

Best just to dowel and redrill everything again when doing this.

[NY Chief]

Part of MY problem is my actual technique. I am playing the vintage tremelo like I would a floyd. The floyd really spoils the player. A Fender doesnt have the range, so one tends to really 'bear down' on he Fender to get a similar tremelo effect, thus forcing tuning issue's.
.

BIG BINGO, TS!

If you have to do massive divebombs and stay in tune you have to use a locking system. Fender trems are for "massaging" notes, ala Beck or at the end of passages where you can mute and re-tune (unless you're Jimi!) and Bigsby's are for that beautiful subtle warble on a Gretsch with a great slap back! Think about it, all the great divebomb stuff we hear on record either proves the guitar doesn't come back perfectly live or more importantly most of that stuff are studio tracks, ala Eruption. I can garantee EVH had to re-tune after that.

[Doug H]

I have a wilkinson 6 hole trem from GFS and another 6 hole trem from GFS on strat guitars but I haven't got them finished yet. Both have big steel blocks. Sadly now I see they are selling them with big brass blocks.

I ended up putting the saddles from the 6 holer I got at bestguitarparts.com back onto the gfs bridge. the gfs unit didn't have the same spank. I tried a cheap Wilky w6c or something like that a while ago, same problem, no sizzle on the saddles, took it off within a day. I don't know why the one from bestguitarparts is any different, maybe cause it's a $50 trem instead of a $40 trem? Maybe too much twang for some and I'm used to it, dunno...

[Doug H]

Part of MY problem is my actual technique. I am playing the vintage tremelo like I would a floyd. The floyd really spoils the player. A Fender doesnt have the range, so one tends to really 'bear down' on he Fender to get a similar tremelo effect, thus forcing tuning issue's.
.

BIG BINGO, TS!

If you have to do massive divebombs and stay in tune you have to use a locking system. Fender trems are for "massaging" notes...

while this is true more or less, I've got mine turned into a divebomb monster. It's not perfect, but I can play eruptiuon and continue playing, worst case is a tug on the arm to bring the g up a few cents. It's very consistent, or at least was until I got a new bridge yesterday. it's still close, I'm massaging the holes in the faceplate to try and get it as good as the one this replaced. I wouldn't bother but the other faceplate was pretty hacked up, I'm hoping I'll get this one as good or better.