fillmore nyc wrote:somethin'else wrote:My
High Order Pickups really get the job done for me. Jeff does great T-Tops and PAFs. I've got a 8.3 bridge and 8.1 neck in vintage style (a tad weakened) A5 magnets with his hand polished raw nickel covers. Real blue blues, red hot leads, and the famous juicy funk middle position. And they clean up like Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction.
Something I dont understand... unless a person is gonna restore a humbucker equipped Gibson built after 1965 or so, and dosent wanna shell out for "real" T-Tops (expensive these days) why would someone specify T-Tops as opposed to PAF's?
As far as actual T-Tops and PAF's go, PAF's have always sounded better (at least to my ear) in
every respect... a little more of everything it seems. I know the whole hype about how the very earliest Patent Number pickups ('63-'64)
WERE basically PAF's, but as far as tone is concerned, I sincerely dont understand the need for '65-'75 replica T-Top pickups, if PAF's are available. If it wasnt for the mortal sin of modding a vintage instrument, removing T-Top's from a late '60's guitar and putting in (real) PAF's would have always been considered an upgrade.
I know there must be SOMETHING to it, and this is just my ignorance speaking, but any guitar I've owned with actual T-Tops (a late '60's 335) never sounded as good as
ANY PAF guitar I've owned (a '61 345, and my current LP Std).
So 'splain me, por favor??!!
Just my opinion/observations as a builder, but It's really a matter of taste. What's "better" or "best" will always be subjective. With respect to the differences,
PAF: 42 Gauge plain enamel (PE) coated wire with a variety of magnet types, supposedly favoring A5 late in the run, butyrate bobbins, widely varying resistances from low 7s to 9k-ish.
Patent Sticker (the 'tweener you mention): 42 PE early on then changed to polyurethane in mid '63 , short A5, and I believe butyrate bobbins, with similarly varying resistances to PAFs. Many would say the change to poly and magnet length had an effect on tone. Nonetheless, these were pretty much PAFs.
Patent Sticker T-Top: 42 Poly, A5, plastic bobbins (don't recall if ABS or what), resistance varies but not as widely as with PAFs (seem to top out around 8k but reported over 8k as well).
T-Tops: 42 Poly, A5, plastic bobbins, late in the run resistance starts dialing in to the 7.3-7.5k range.
All of the changes have some impact on the resulting tone, however miniscule. The degree of impact of any of them is something constantly argued and there is no correct answer or assessment. In the end, good tone is in the ear of the beholder.
As a winder/builder, what the differences allow me to do is speak within frames of reference when settling on a build for a customer. My "PAF" winds are formulas based on actual PAFs. My T-Top winds, are based on formulas from actual T-Tops. In fact, the best sounding pickup I've ever heard was a '60s patent sticker T-Top that I had in the shop and spec'd for a customer. If a customer is asking for a specific tone similar to Page's Les Paul with the T-Top bridge and PAF neck then we have a frame of reference and we can talk "T-Top type" and "PAF type" to cover the tone. I suppose it might be considered a bit of a marketing gimmick, and I won't argue that it isn't to a degree, but for me it's a way of relating to customers in effort to provide what they're after. It's like talking resistance versus "output". Folks like to wax philosophic about output being different than resistance and that's completely true. That said, it's minimally effective to discuss inductance, coil Q, metal alloys, blah/blah, etc. That's not a good frame of reference, IMO.
So what's the need for a '65-'75 T-Top replica? Well for me, it has to do with losing several nights sleep over the incredible tone I heard from the last one I dropped into a guitar. I begged the guy to sell it to me and he wouldn't, so I had to try to duplicate it for myself. Once I felt I'd done a reasonably good job of it, it seemed worthy of adding to the line. Here again, since "best" is in the ear of the beholder, for me, I'd be hard pressed to yank that pickup for a PAF just because it was a PAF. Regarding PAF types, for those of us that believe they're behind some of the greatest tones they have their place too. Not so much "better" than some T-Tops, just damn fine in their own right and worthy of perpetuating. Honestly, the notion that any one person knows what the "best" tone is really doesn't make any sense.
It's a great time for players these days as far as pickups are concerned. There are a lot of folks building outstanding pickups that can deliver the classic tones that we love at a cost well under the real thing. One or two have gone so far as to source butyrate bobbins, accurate frames, correct alloy screws/slugs, etc., rendering pickups that are difficult to discern from the originals. If you're willing to pay for them, then they're a good deal for sure as long as they deliver the tone.
Not sure if this helps, but there it is. This is my take on winding pickups, which may vary from some other builders.
HO
I've tried AIIIs and AIVs, too... no go.
)
) While the A5 helped the weaker T-Top, I found out then that I really liked the Asymmetrical Wind of the PAF. SO! I ended up putting the PAF 8.1 A5 in the neck, and got a 3rd PAF 8.3 A5 from Jeff for the bridge. And BOOYAH!