Les Pauls

[fillmore nyc]

MAN, Icampz!!! I wish you would stop sugar coating everything, beating around the bush and just come out with what you REALLY feel already!!!
Seriously, some very well thought out posts and great points being made here!! Very cool.

[jcmjmp]

Turn your WHOLE company around!!! Make every Gibson, a guitar worth owning!!! Go back to the beginning. If need be... take lessons from Heritage (you remember them), Tokai, ESP... the master craftsmen you do have access to. Let them make the decisions. Shave off the BS corporate culture & expenditures, nix the Robot guitar, tame the profit expectancies, get a grip with the price... HENRY... "do you understand the words that are comin' outta my mouth!?!"

Some people think that only the older guitars were any good. A lot of the newer stuff is better than what came out of the Fender and Gibson factories in the early days.

The fact is that making a Les Paul is expensive. Nitro finish, carved top on a separate body, angled set neck, bound bodies and necks, large pearl inlays. All of that costs money, needs a lot of manual intervention and the cost of everything is going up.

If you want a hand made LP, you can always go to the custom shop.

As for things like the robot guitar, well, Gibson has always tried to innovate and bring something new to the market. They had the smartwood LPs a while back which were a great idea. The LP BFG is kinda neat, the flat nitro LPs is another good idea.

It seems that a lot of people can't imagine anything after the 60's being any good.

[fillmore nyc]

Some people think that only the older guitars were any good. A lot of the newer stuff is better than what came out of the Fender and Gibson factories in the early days.

Well, "better" is kind of a subjective word to use for some new guitars these days. I agree that BUILD quality is better, and there is a lot less incidence of things like neck resets being needed, etc. It just seems like its nearly impossible to duplicate the mojo of an old guitar, even if someone does a fine relic job to make it look and feel like an older guitar. I see a lot of things that (understandably) are done to lower costs... like thick, plastic-y poly finishes, shit electronics, etc.
Old Gibson and Fenders used nitro almost exclusively (no EPA to stop 'em) and it obviously makes a difference in resonance & feel.
A fresh, new guitar, even of high quality (like PRS) cant compare to an old LP or Strat, IMO.

If you want a hand made LP, you can always go to the custom shop.

Yeah, but again, it still doesnt measure up to wood and pickups that have been around for 40 or 50 years, and thru the Custom Shop, it STILL costs an arm and a leg. I totally agree that Custom Shop guitars are fine instruments. You're gonna pay dearly for that guitar thats trying to be a '50's or '60's guitar, though, and its still gonna have to sit around for a number of years to be like an old guitar.
I've had quite a few Gibsons (mostly) ranging from late '20's L-5's, thru early '60's solidbodies. I've never played anything new that had the "it" factor of those old gems.

It seems that a lot of people can't imagine anything after the 60's being any good.

Dont forget the stigma that happened BETWEEN the '60's and today... Gibson (and Fender) made some of their worst shit ever in the '70's and '80's. It took a while for players to forget about that!! Finally, they're getting the message that players know the difference, but MAN, are they charging money for that difference!! I mean, 12k list for the "Play Loud" Malmsteen Strat?? 11k for the Johnny Winter Firebird (which isnt even really accurate)??
Man, thats a lotta coin to duplicate an older guitar.

I agree that there IS some stuff being produced today that qualifies as a fine guitar, but it seems that we're gonna have to wait 50 years for it to become a "WOW" guitar.

(Admittedly, maybe Im "dating" myself too. Its kinda like, if you're used shit like a 4 speed, 4:10 rear 426 Hemi 'Cuda, you dont really wanna know about the latest 6 speed automatic, all wheel drive Mitsubishi Evo that just came out, even if it is a better car!!!)