Les Paul Historic

Myopic Void · Post by **Myopic Void** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:38 am

Billy Batz wrote:Upgrading electronics is automatic.

Having to replace more 'structural' things like studs is something that would annoy me for the money but I guess thats something I can do one at a time in time and see how it goes. If the metal in tranys is so hard to nail down I would think the metal in bridges and studs would have the same weakness. Why that should necessarily mean it sounds worse or less resonant or musical, I dont know, but the fact that it always comes out that way tells me there is something inherent to even the metallurgy today that is just cheap all around and always less musical qualities.

My main thing is I want to get the cheapest one I can. Im not worried about the top and I hope the top is the only reason for such steep price hikes for the 59. I would expect that to be the case because there are 58s and 60s that cost the same and they all have figured tops. As long as they all sound the same (well not the same but to the same standards) I dont care about aesthetics- Ill take the cheaper of the guitars.

novosibir wrote:
Billy Batz wrote:What does R0 signify?
R8 = 1958
R9 = 1959
R0 = 1960

for the Historic Collection series

Larry
I see. Thank you sir.

There is something to this metal issue Dan. Most vendors are on the cheap so it no surprise. I just am getting ready to order a ABR-1 from pigtail. After a research it seems the ABR-1 on Historics are off a bit. The saddle's fall out as we all now on Standards or Historic's hence Gibson has put the saddle wire to stop it.

The old ABR-1's did not have that feature as the saddles sat snug due to tighter tolerances. Also the metal is of cheaper grade on the Historic ABR-1 and the saddle orientation is not exactly situated right compared to the original ABR-1. Plus the saddles themselves should be brass not steel. So I am doing my final big tweak the ABR-1. The TP, studs, bushings, caps, pots, PU's are correct save the ABR-1. I hope for a positive tonal change even if very minor. I want everything to be period correct.

Have you found one you like yet? I think you will find a good price on plain top.

Cheers,

Eric

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:49 am

Once I have at least 40% of the price stashed aside Ill just go to all the music stores around, and theres quite a few, and just try out every VOS they have and see what wets my whistle.

Myopic Void · Post by **Myopic Void** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:08 pm

Sounds like a good plan!

Cheers,

Eric

yngwie308 · Post by **yngwie308** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:57 pm

How about this faded finish Peter Green modded Historic from CV Guitars:
http://cvguitars.com/PGMod/LCPG-78/

yngwie308

novosibir · Post by **novosibir** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:44 pm

Myopic Void wrote:... and the saddle orientation is not exactly situated right compared to the original ABR-1.

Could you elaborate this a bit more?

Myopic Void wrote:Plus the saddles themselves should be brass not steel.

Are you absolutely shure about this? I always thought, that the Historic's saddles already are brass, nickel plated. My R8 is made in 2001 with the serial #8 1585, just for the case, that this is of some help.

Larry

Myopic Void · Post by **Myopic Void** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:36 pm

novosibir wrote:
Myopic Void wrote:... and the saddle orientation is not exactly situated right compared to the original ABR-1.
Could you elaborate this a bit more?

Myopic Void wrote:Plus the saddles themselves should be brass not steel.
Are you absolutely shure about this? I always thought, that the Historic's saddles already are brass, nickel plated. My R8 is made in 2001 with the serial #8 1585, just for the case, that this is of some help.

Larry

Hey Larry,

Steve Rowan (Pigtail) makes the accurate ABR-1. After talking with users of his ABR-1 they note that the "seating" in the saddle compartment is at a slighty different angle. Too what orientation I am not sure. I should have one here very soon to see for myself. I do understand the saddle compartment is alot tighter as to not allow the saddles to fall when you break a string. On current ABR-1 as you know we have a string retainer which is not correct for the original design. And the retainer causes rattle sometimes and the saddles are really loose with a lot of play unlike the old ones.

I thought the saddles were correct too on Historic's but there is debate as to what they are on Historic's. some claim that different years have different alloy's like nickel-plated ZINC, not brass or nickel-plated brass/zinc alloy. My 2005 saddles are not brass colored in the grooves. So I am inclined to think on my R0 it's nickel-plated zinc alloy mix? Who knows? Where's the yellow?

Saddles must be a grey area I think with Historic's. I trust pigtail as their studs and TP are clearly different so their saddles should be true yellow brass as they claim not some mix alloy etc.

I will keep you posted on the ABR-1 and saddles when they arrive. A visit to the LES Paul forum archives show debates regarding saddles etc.

Cheers,

Eric

novosibir · Post by **novosibir** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:26 pm

Myopic Void wrote:I will keep you posted on the ABR-1 and saddles when they arrive. A visit to the LES Paul forum archives show debates regarding saddles etc.

Yes, I'd like to hear detailed news & info, as soon as you may speak about!
I've registered at the Les Paul forum already some weeks ago, but still no access

When I log in there and try to step into the forum, then
I get this:

novosibir, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

Already a few times I've reported this to lily@lespaulforum.org
But still didn't get any reply to my complaint!

Larry

Myopic Void · Post by **Myopic Void** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:29 pm

novosibir wrote:
Myopic Void wrote:I will keep you posted on the ABR-1 and saddles when they arrive. A visit to the LES Paul forum archives show debates regarding saddles etc.
Yes, I'd like to hear detailed news & info, as soon as you may speak about!
I've registered at the Les Paul forum already some weeks ago, but still no access When I log in there and try to step into the forum, then
I get this:

novosibir, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
Already a few times I've reported this to lily@lespaulforum.org
But still didn't get any reply to my complaint!

Larry

Larry I had the same trouble years ago when I joined. It took weeks to get on board. They are pretty strict about new user accounts I think. Just keep trying. It's a good place for info as the are a lot of details to cover with LP's

Cheers,

Eric

yngwie308 · Post by **yngwie308** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:31 pm

Larry it only took me a few days, I cracked a joke to Lily with a personal email, saying I met Ted Mc Carty one time and shook his hand, did that qualify me to be accepted

yngwie308

56goldtop · Post by **56goldtop** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:08 am

yngwie308 wrote:How about this faded finish Peter Green modded Historic from CV Guitars:
http://cvguitars.com/PGMod/LCPG-78/

yngwie308

Actually that's not a historic, but a standard faded. It looks nice though.

yngwie308 · Post by **yngwie308** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:54 am

Thanks 56, actually that was also pointed out to me on the Gary Moore fan club forum...I didn't even look at it that closely, and I am not that up on the Historics these days, since these guys have to change all the parts, and practically rebuild them, tenon, truss rod, inlays, roll off the fingerboard ect., that it is an expensive proposition in any case, also the photo on the scale of 6 lbs. would give it away!!
yngwie308

gtomax · Post by **gtomax** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:21 pm

Guitars are a weird thing. Some got it, some don't.

I found one that had *IT* at Guitar Center of all places once. In the special back room where they hide the good stuff at GC Hollywood they had a Gretsch Black Penguin with Dynasonics. Weighed about 2 tons and absolutely sang. At $3k it was a hefty investment so I went home to think about it. Big mistake. Went back the next day to buy it and it was gone! Seems Tim McGraw's "People" came in and bought it to give as a gift on stage to Faith Hill at some upcoming concert. It's probably sitting on a wall somewhere never to be heard again. Heartbreaker.

Anyway, getting back to LP Historics... I think the custom shop puts out some good product every now and then. As with all hand made things, some will have it and some won't. Mainly depending on how the guy making it's night was the the night before or how many he had to churn out that day. I got a weirdo R8 in 2002 that had an original 58 SN (80059). It was a black top 58 with was odd and sure enough they only made 60 of them. It sat at Sam Ash on Sunset Blvd. for 2 years, passed up for nice cherry bursts and other pretty LOOKING guitars. Bought it on green tag clearance for $2k out the door and it is easily the best playing and sounding new or vintage guitar I've played. Then again, I've played other R8s that I would pay over a thousand for.

I think it mainly comes down to finding *that one* as with a lot of hand made goods.

Myopic Void · Post by **Myopic Void** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:49 pm

gtomax wrote:Guitars are a weird thing. Some got it, some don't.

I found one that had *IT* at Guitar Center of all places once. In the special back room where they hide the good stuff at GC Hollywood they had a Gretsch Black Penguin with Dynasonics. Weighed about 2 tons and absolutely sang. At $3k it was a hefty investment so I went home to think about it. Big mistake. Went back the next day to buy it and it was gone! Seems Tim McGraw's "People" came in and bought it to give as a gift on stage to Faith Hill at some upcoming concert. It's probably sitting on a wall somewhere never to be heard again. Heartbreaker.

Anyway, getting back to LP Historics... I think the custom shop puts out some good product every now and then. As with all hand made things, some will have it and some won't. Mainly depending on how the guy making it's night was the the night before or how many he had to churn out that day. I got a weirdo R8 in 2002 that had an original 58 SN (80059). It was a black top 58 with was odd and sure enough they only made 60 of them. It sat at Sam Ash on Sunset Blvd. for 2 years, passed up for nice cherry bursts and other pretty LOOKING guitars. Bought it on green tag clearance for $2k out the door and it is easily the best playing and sounding new or vintage guitar I've played. Then again, I've played other R8s that I would pay over a thousand for.

I think it mainly comes down to finding *that one* as with a lot of hand made goods.

I agree they are more hands on with the Historics than the standard USA models. They have to go and pick the wood out to find pieces that lesser weight etc. They are the way to go if you can afford it.

Thanks 56, actually that was also pointed out to me on the Gary Moore fan club forum...I didn't even look at it that closely, and I am not that up on the Historics these days, since these guys have to change all the parts, and practically rebuild them, tenon, truss rod, inlays, roll off the fingerboard ect., that it is an expensive proposition in any case, also the photo on the scale of 6 lbs. would give it away!!

What you say is true save...you don't have to mess with the neck tenon because it done right and is one of the major differences between a Historic and Standard LP. Really the main things to change are PU's POT's, TP, Studs, Bridge. If you go with aftermarket PU's you can do all of this for say 1000.00-1200.00 beyond the price tag. As far as inlays they are better on Historics than standards but still not exact....but as for affecting tone?? I highly doubt it. If you can splurge go with real PAF's. Aside from the bridge (on order) that was my final tweak.

Cheers,

Eric

yngwie308 · Post by **yngwie308** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:02 pm

Right on Eric, I know you don't care for tribute groups, but in your style of playing, if you don't mind me saying so, there is a tribute to Mr. JP methinks!!
+1 on the Gibson Hystericals, yes every so often a good one slips out, it's just not on the cards for me to have on, liking the 1954 Oxblood the best and I of course love Greeny and Gary's current burst Stripe as a workingman's guitar, which is what they all should be, not what it's become these days. If a Historic with a few changes can approximate the tone of these mega-buck guitars, right on. And what do you mean inlays don't effect the tone..

don't dare say that on TLPF he he.
Actually since i boldly joined there, not much for me to say other than about my old 1954 Junior and my 1952/56 Goldtop conversion, at least on My Les Paul Forum which I enjoy more, there is freedom to own other guitars and a friendly vibe, imo TLPF is like being in a strict school.

Nice moustache by the way (on an unrelated topic)

yngwie308

gnugear · Post by **gnugear** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:14 pm

Hey Dan!
I was never a Les Paul guy until I played the Historics. Not to sound snobby but the regular standards never did anything for me. They were always kind of slow and dead sounding. The Historics are more resonant, light, and toneful. Here's a pic of my '05 R9. It's my favorite guitar.