Firebirds

[NY Chief]

Since 'birds have been mentioned a number of times in other threads how'bout one just for them?

I have Firebird V, a few years old and it's got a certain something to it's tone that's awful nice. A drummer once said to me "That guitar sounds good" and I grew up playing with him and he's never said that about any of my other guitars. Is it the neck through body, mini buckers...?

Chime in here anytime, fillmore. I KNOW you're a BIG 'bird guy!

[fillmore nyc]

Chime in here anytime, fillmore. I KNOW you're a BIG 'bird guy!

Uh, umm, WHAT?? Who has awakened me from my beauty sleep??

Yeah, buddy. "Big bird guy... thats me"!!
Seriously I just love them 'Birds. I think its the individuality of them that hooks me up. The neck thru body, the pickups being unique to FB's, the backwards body and headstock, the banjo tuners (admittedly a love/hate relationship with those). But its the combination of these things that makes a Firebird what it is. I DO think its maybe one of the most unforgiving guitars you can sling on yer shoulder though. Ya GOTTA have some chops to sound decent on a FB. If you suck at guitar, a FB will throw up a flag announcing it to anyone listening.
I used to collect old original 'Birds big time, but sold off all but one. My remaining FB is a WAY cool Inverness Green FB III. Like I've said, when I roll the rock out of the way, get out of the cave and get a digital cam, Ill post some pics. The "Fill" collection has grown out of all reasonable proportions (according to Mrs. Fill), but what the hell. I only plan on living once!! /

[Zoso]

I also have a Firebird V that I got a couple years ago. It does have a certain mojo, and it is the only guitar my wife has ever specifically pointed out as sounding good at a gig. Usually she doesn't even care.
I agree with fill on the unforgiving part as well. But man, they just look and sound cool. I've actually been considering putting alnico mini-buckers in mine and replacing the ceramic ones that Gibson put in it. I'm thinking that it might make it sound even better, although I have to admit the stock pups don't sound bad at all. Unlike the pups that came in my Paul and Flying V, which I couldn't wait to replace.

[gutpile]

NYC, your Firebird sounds killer! I wouldn't change a thing!!

[Mynameisfritz]

Oh man, I had a black Firebird III - not sure if the black was original - and I sold it in 1990 for a trip to NZ, just when the RI came out. I could still ... myself for that.

I've been looking for another Bird for quite a while now. Played a 70's Bird lately, but it wasn't the real thing. I heard the 70's RI's are very different from each other, so I'll keep my eyes open.

What do you think about the 90's RI's? I didn't like them when they came out - they lost some of the details I loved on the old models. But since these are the only affordable models at the time which you can take on stage without any worries, I'll probably change my opinion here.

I heard that Gibson is planing a Johnny Winter Signature Model. Has anybody heard of that?

[Roe]

yes the inspired by johnny Winter moder is comming soon according to gibson's webpage

[fillmore nyc]

Oh man, I had a black Firebird III - not sure if the black was original - and I sold it in 1990 for a trip to NZ, just when the RI came out. I could still ... myself for that.

I've been looking for another Bird for quite a while now. Played a 70's Bird lately, but it wasn't the real thing. I heard the 70's RI's are very different from each other, so I'll keep my eyes open.

What do you think about the 90's RI's? I didn't like them when they came out - they lost some of the details I loved on the old models. But since these are the only affordable models at the time which you can take on stage without any worries, I'll probably change my opinion here.

I heard that Gibson is planing a Johnny Winter Signature Model. Has anybody heard of that?

I hate to tell you, but if that FB III you had in black WAS original (assuming you mean that its also a '63 to mid '65 reverse FB) , that thing is as rare as a virgin at spring break.
(not to mention its worth a TON of money these days)
The '90's reissues, while being decent guitars, differ a lot from the original guitars. First on the "bad" list is the chrome hardware vs nickel hdwr on original FB's. (Unless its a FB VII with gold hdwr, which I dont care for... that middle pup always gets in the way, and makes "clicking" sounds from my pick hitting it). The pickups in particular are WAY more powerful on the reissues, and less vintage sounding. Thats either good or bad, depending on your needs. Original FB pickups read approx 6k-7k on a DVM. The '90's reissues read about 13k on the neck pup, and 22k on the bridge pup.
Some guys like the newer pup's better, cause the bridge pup is much more usable than an original, which IMO sounds thin. The neck pup is where its at on a FB. For all I care, they could have left the bridge pup off the guitar, cause its easy to get a lead sound from the neck pup.
I also heard that Gibson was coming out with a Johnny Winter FB. I'd be VERY interested in seeing that guitar.

[NY Chief]

Here 'ya go, "Big Bird" .....

http://www.sweetwater.com/publications/ ... d=37&day=2

Gibson Custom Johnny Winter Firebird
Johnny Winter is one of the world's greatest slide players, and his axe of choice for decades has been a 1963 Gibson Firebird V. With the Johnny Winter Firebird, Gibson recreates Johnny's favorite axe with every last detail being replicated. The body wings are composed of mahogany with 9-ply mahogany/walnut neck-through construction. Electronically, this Firebird is loaded with mini-humbuckers for hot leads and searing slide tones.

Gibson Custom Shop Johnny Winter Firebird Features:
Spot-on replication of Johnny's 1963 Firebird V
Mahogany body with neck-thru construction
Mini-humbuckers
Banjo tuners

Notify me when more information is available for the Gibson Custom Johnny Winter Firebird

[NY Chief]

NYC, your Firebird sounds killer! I wouldn't change a thing!!

Thanks, gut. I "ain't changin' nuttin"!!!

I hear you guys, there is just something tonewise on the firebirds. Here we are chasing pots, caps, bridges,etc and discussing minute value changes and when you pick up a firebird it just stands WAY out. I haven't played a vintage bird but like gut says the one I bought recently has that tone that causes "not to with it" listeners to comment (like what zoso says " it is the only guitar my wife has ever specifically pointed out as sounding good at a gig. Usually she doesn't even care. "

And, yeah, you gotta be clean on them or else.....

So when you get that rock rolled back, filly, let's that green beauty ya got!

[fillmore nyc]

I hear you guys, there is just something tonewise on the firebirds. Here we are chasing pots, caps, bridges,etc and discussing minute value changes and when you pick up a firebird it just stands WAY out. I haven't played a vintage bird but like gut says the one I bought recently has that tone that causes "not to with it" listeners to comment (like what zoso says " it is the only guitar my wife has ever specifically pointed out as sounding good at a gig. Usually she doesn't even care. "

And, yeah, you gotta be clean on them or else.....

So when you get that rock rolled back, filly, let's that green beauty ya got!

You got it.
Maybe one of the best tones I've ever had was an old '64 Firebird V thru a blackface Fender Super. The 4-10's thru that amp with that early FB just killed, but as has been stated, it was NOT a forgiving set up.
Crank that thing up and it sounded like God Himself designed the tone IF yer playing was spot on. BUT... if I was not up to snuff that night? Better off leaving that rig at home, cause it was the worst tattletale of bad playing ever!!
Just BTW, a great replacement pickup for reissue FB's is the Duncan Antiquity neck/bridge set. I grabbed a set off of Ebay a few months ago, and though they are not in a Firebird at the moment, they sound very close to original FB pup's.

[NY Chief]

So is it the neck through body?

Remember that guy Les Paul who built his first electric on a piece of railroad track and said it was the most pure tone he ever heard? Later he built the log which was the same concept with fake "wings" to make it look like a real guitar....hmmm.....

BTW, here's an inetesting website...

http://www.modernguitars.com/archives/000818.html

[fillmore nyc]

So is it the neck through body?

Remember that guy Les Paul who built his first electric on a piece of railroad track and said it was the most pure tone he ever heard? Later he built the log which was the same concept with fake "wings" to make it look like a real guitar....hmmm.....

You know, Im sure its the whole combination of things that make a Firebird what it is. One thing I always thought was unique was the reversed headstock. Its not purely a visual difference. The short length of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd string from the nut to the tuner is intentional to keep string stretch on those strings to a minimum. Its less of a critical issue on the wound strings, which is why they're longer. Im sure that contributes to the tone somehow.
Also, the pickups are unique to FB's. They kinda look like mini-humbuckers, but the construction is totally different, and so is the tone.
And as you said, Chief, the neck thru body has a huge influence on everything: tone, sustain, ring, etc. The one thing I kinda wish the had done on original reverse FB's is give 'em a chunky neck. They consistently used very thin necks on early FB's, which is a big reason that they are prone to headstock breakage. The Historic reissues have noticeably chunkier necks, and are nicer to play for that reason.
IMO, its probably the most individual, unique guitar Gibson has made to date, because it shares almost nothing with any other guitar they produce.

[Mynameisfritz]

I hate to tell you, but if that FB III you had in black WAS original (assuming you mean that its also a '63 to mid '65 reverse FB) , that thing is as rare as a virgin at spring break.
(not to mention its worth a TON of money these days)

What's that? I can't hear you - I don't understand a word...

Well, it WAS a reverse Bird III with dot inlays, neck binding, but it came with a tunamatic bridge and tailpiece. I bought it around '86 and the black nitro finish had all these little cracks, so if it had been a refinish, this must have been done very well and a long time ago. I don't remember seeing any holes of a removed vibrato in the body. It also came with a black pickguard - so the instrument definitely had a story to tell, but I'm sure it was a Bird III.

The '90's reissues, while being decent guitars, differ a lot from the original guitars.

Yeah, the chrome hardware is totally different, it looks kinda cheap, also the headstock has a slightly simplified form if I remember it right. Some character of the old Birds has been gone in a way.
But what about the other features of the RI? Maybe it's worth to get some other PU's and hardware and try to live with it. What's your experiences with the RI-Birds?

[yngwie308]

I heard the JW FB repliguitar comes complete with the major ding in the neck, as featured on the original , but it is nos compared to what Yngwie's Duck replica will look like if Fender ever gets of their asses and builds them, LOL.
yngwie'my fav Firebirds were Trans Ams'308

[fillmore nyc]

But what about the other features of the RI? Maybe it's worth to get some other PU's and hardware and try to live with it. What's your experiences with the RI-Birds?

Well, you could make it a lot more "vintage-y" by changing the pickups to Duncan Antiquities. They do sound pretty close to original FB pup's, probably more so than any other mfr's pups that I know of.
Changing the hardware to nickel would be for asthetics only, and it would be EXPENSIVE to change the tuners to nickel, cause nobody makes them anymore. Original nickel banjo tuners cost an arm and a leg. You could buy a set of gold tuners off of Ebay and buff the gold off. Under the gold is nickel, so thats about the cheapest way to do it.
I would probably just change the pup's and live with it that way. At least Gibson had the smarts to make the reissues neck-thru body.
The biggest obstacle with reissue 'Birds is finding one that plays well. Thats a long, thin length of mahogany, and even though it has that 7 piece lamination, its really prone to warping. It seems to me that a LOT of FB's have neck twist / wavy-ness issues. I dont often see reissue FB's that play really well.
(That goes for original 'Birds too. Lots of them have neck issues as well). It IS one of the best features of the Historic reissue 'Birds... they endowed them with a fairly chunky neck, and they seem to have less neck problems than the standard USA FB's.