Metropoulos Forum

after i asked opinions about where to buy some good 500k CTS audio taper pots, many said to check RS guitarworks.
i was wondering if buying from a shop that is selling wiring kits would be wise knowing there is a risk they take all the pots about 500k for the kits and reject the lower ones to sell apart, so i asked them and they said
"no, no, they are just taken from the shelf and are not rejects from the kits ".

i bought more than 20 of them to be sure i have many about 500k as they are +/- 10% but most of the pots i received are about 465k ; 2 or 3 beeing barely about 475 k !

i'm really surprised to get some pots with a so low value, so i wonder if they are really taken from the shelf !

did you get some low ones like that when buying the 500K CTS audio taper short shaft pots from them ?

If you purchase the wiring kits the pots are supposedly matched and are generally marked on the pot housing. I upgraded my Lester with the RS vintage kit and it was a 100% improvement over the stock Gibson pots and wiring. However, I never checked the pots for value but I would guess they are pretty close to specs as they sound good and supposedly RS hand picks the CTS pots for their kits. But who really knows as quality control is a thing of the past, example look at what we go thru with these modern day tubes that are advertised as matched until you get some.

Dr. Vintage controls sets are all carefully measured.
yngwie308

yngwie308 wrote:Dr. Vintage controls sets are all carefully measured.
yngwie308

Yes they are, and IMHO as importantly, easy to turn.

yngwie308 wrote:Dr. Vintage controls sets are all carefully measured.
yngwie308

I got a set of those from Dr. V (I know Rick). One pot was bad out of the box. I replaced it with an RS Super Pot that WCR had taken apart and made easy to turn.

So there you go. No one is perfect for wiring control kits.

Can someone explain to me why a matched set of pots in a guitar should sound better?

I don't know about a matched set. What I do know is that you have some tone robbing happening below 500K with humbuckers, although not with single coils like Strat pickups. P90's like 500 or 300K pots depending on how high their DC resistance is.

So they should just contract their supplier to provide only the highest 5%. From the sound of it all they do is get their order of pots and put closely measured sets together but to what end? Who ever said that should sound or perform better? I mean I just buy some CTS pots and use the cap I think sounds best. Whatever- hovlands or NOS bumblebees if you want to shell out, or VitQs or any of these new hifi high end PiO caps or whatever. I have nothing against RS accept when I read the product it sounded like BS to me. Like a way to make a huge profit off components, something that normally wont make you a lot of profit per sale.

Now if they were to use 5% tolerance pots or less then I can understand why the huge expense. Otherwise Ill continue to just pick up some pots and caps elsewhere for a good deal less.

The same with superpots. It just gives you a slightly different log track right? I guess if thats worth it to you..

If theres something Im missing let me in and Ill be happy to shell it out tho and sing their praises everywhere but noone ever seems to be able to explain so why should I?

I think everyone has made a mistake professionally, but this is what Rick Norman, has to say about his Vintage Spec Controls kit:
http://www.doctorvintage.com/drv1_controls.html
Rick appears to be very careful and does great work. I know he knows you Jim, we discussed you and he has an amp you built I believe!
yngwie308

BB, there's a reason I have 20 CTS 500k pots in a bag here. But I've also got old Bees & Black Beauty caps, too. If it reads more than 475K and has decent taper, I'm happy. Matched? Well, that's subjective. You really want the highest rating you can get towards 550-560K. Past that I don't think humbucker pickups get more tone or output, and the prices take another huge leap on the pots, too.

yngwie308: I like Rick, but Rick's got so many irons in the fire he's never sent me a replacement. (Hey Rick, WTF?) He's also too busy to check the kits he sends out individually. If he did, mine wouldn't have shown up with a taper on a volume pot that was unusable. It's been this way since last November, by the way. What they measure on 10 and what they measure through the rest of the sweep is related to the DC resistance (or taper) the disc provides. I'm afraid NONE of these companies measure them anywhere but on 10. If you only played with your volume knobs on 10, then just wire the pickups right to the output and be done with it, right?

As I said elsewhere, the only true test is to put them in your guitar circuit and try them.

The RS pots are stiff. I sent mine to Wagner to make them looser (thank you WCR!) and turn easier. One of my RS Super Pots (WCR modded) replaced the defective Dr. V pot I got, by the way. It's a beefier pot than the Dr. V and equivalent to the WCR pot.

The WCR wiring kit works great. You can order them stiff or loose (he'll fix the tightness before they ship), too. His pots have a decent/even taper as well, plus good caps as well. They're all a custom build he spec'd. If you're going to spend $100 on a wiring kit, his is decent. They're in my latest SG Reissue. The stock Gibson 300K linear taper pots were toast. Bad taper, etc.

CTS charges way more for the 5% tolerance to these guys. I know that RS, Dr. V and WCR all spec this 5% tolerance pot. The sad part is that CTS doesn't always deliver, nor does the pot always taper off as you'd hoped. They can't check them all in a guitar, some trust has to be involved.

So as I stated...you can buy 20 pots and hope they'll have 4 that are close to 500k, then buy your caps and put together a pseudo RS/V/WCR kit. But they won't be as tough mechanically (better metal parts internally on all of them) as the custom kits.

Also, the cost on these is ridiculous from CTS. I know what the costs are and they're not making a ton of money on them in comparison to other products they sell. Charging $100 for a pre dialed in kit MIGHT make them $15-20...after all the costs are in. So don't be too hard on them.

I doubt many of you are going to buy 20 $5 CTS pots to use 4, then buy your caps, wire, ground wire, etc. and think you're saving a ton.

My advice is to go with whatever kit makes the most sense, based on your $$$ and patience! For those who care, the Dr. V is closest to the old Centralab style pots, but have some quality control issues and customer service follow up issues as well (so keep that in mind, you have to hammer Rick for stuff, I've found, sadly).

The RS pots are stiff. They have to be loosened. I don't know how. WCR does. No issues on the quality or taper with mine except they're stiff.

The WCR kits are probably the best of the bunch, since Jim will loosen the pots for you or leave them tighter, however you prefer. That's due to the better metal components inside, by the way.

Or you can buy $140 worth of pots, caps & wire and do it yourself. It's up to you, gents!

If you have some unusable pots you can learn to adjust the resistance and taper yourself. You just scrap some of the carbon off the track at the edge this increases the resistance at the point of contact.

I have nothing against WCR or RS at all, I have never tried their kits. I would just like to give a positive comment about the Dr.V kits. All the pots read 550+, and work great with a very good volume sweep. I know that every company has issues though, I just wanted to share my experience .

Southbay Ampworks wrote:CTS charges way more for the 5% tolerance to these guys. I know that RS, Dr. V and WCR all spec this 5% tolerance pot. The sad part is that CTS doesn't always deliver, nor does the pot always taper off as you'd hoped. They can't check them all in a guitar, some trust has to be involved.

So as I stated...you can buy 20 pots and hope they'll have 4 that are close to 500k, then buy your caps and put together a pseudo RS/V/WCR kit. But they won't be as tough mechanically (better metal parts internally on all of them) as the custom kits.

Also, the cost on these is ridiculous from CTS. I know what the costs are and they're not making a ton of money on them in comparison to other products they sell. Charging $100 for a pre dialed in kit MIGHT make them $15-20...after all the costs are in. So don't be too hard on them.

OK so they are 5% pots. That makes a lot more sense though I still think the matching thing is alotta spinning yarn. I never saw anything about them being gauranteed to be above a certain resistance or I probably wouldve thought them worth it and bought a kit. Looking at the DrV kit I have no trouble paying that much if I KNOW the pots are all going to be 500k. If they have to buy 5% stock and still thrown out the low values Id expect the price to be high per pot but I never saw such a claim about the RS kits.

Billy Batz wrote: OK so they are 5% pots. That makes a lot more sense though I still think the matching thing is alotta spinning yarn. I never saw anything about them being gauranteed to be above a certain resistance or I probably wouldve thought them worth it and bought a kit. Looking at the DrV kit I have no trouble paying that much if I KNOW the pots are all going to be 500k. If they have to buy 5% stock and still thrown out the low values Id expect the price to be high per pot but I never saw such a claim about the RS kits.

The RS Super Pots are 5%, not sure if they get other CTS pots that are 10-20% tolerance, but I'll bet they do, or did in the past.

As for the Dr. V, Rick does spec the 5% tolerance, as does WCR. The Dr. V packaging is the most elegant looking by far, but as I said, untested in a circuit, despite being tested on 10.

The WCR kits are built tougher, IMO, especially if you look at the grounding and caps design. His caps sound good, I have them in my 61 SG Std Reissue.

The RS pots are very good, just stiff.

There are ways to loosen them up with TV tuner cleaner and other methods, or so I've read on the net. Check the LPF or TGP, I think Geetarpicker had a method that worked.

Jim, my Goldtop, Rick handpicked the pots for my guitar and wired up my set, for my pickups. I can only say he does fantastic work and is very knowledgable. And many will be suprised when his new pickups come out.
I know who Rick is and his work, I don't know who does the sets at RS and Wagner is a great guy, but I don't know his control sets.
I emailed him with the thread, so hopefully your bad pot will be replaced soon.. , hope so.
yngwie308