Why do 70's strats get a bad rap??

[Guitar-Sam]

Whats the gig here??
I actually like them allot.You gotta know the flaws and avoid them.Bad grain match on natural finishes.But mainly the loose neck pockets.But evan slightly loose ones only need a sliver of card stock to fix.If the neck pocket is tight the 3 bolt neck is as good IF NOT BETTER than 4 bolt IMO cause you can really crank that third bolt down + theres no shimming.
I think the one peice tremolo has a great unique sound and prefer it to all others I've played tone wise.Bar stripping issues OK OK but how hard are you swingin that thing around by the bar anyways?
As far as weight who the hell cares Really??Whens the last time you said "I hate that guys tone on CD you can really tell his guitar is 12lbs"?? Isn't tone and playabilitie the ONLY things that should really matter?? If it hurts your shoulder get a wider strap? Lets can all those crappy old Marshall cabs with all them metal handles and ply backs that weigh so much,Behringer makes nice chip board ones that weigh 20lbs.

[lcampz]

Whats the gig here??
I actually like them allot.You gotta know the flaws and avoid them.Bad grain match on natural finishes.But mainly the loose neck pockets.But evan slightly loose ones only need a sliver of card stock to fix.If the neck pocket is tight the 3 bolt neck is as good IF NOT BETTER than 4 bolt IMO cause you can really crank that third bolt down + theres no shimming.
I think the one peice tremolo has a great unique sound and prefer it to all others I've played tone wise.Bar stripping issues OK OK but how hard are you swingin that thing around by the bar anyways?
As far as weight who the hell cares Really??Whens the last time you said "I hate that guys tone on CD you can really tell his guitar is 12lbs"?? Isn't tone and playabilitie the ONLY things that should really matter?? If it hurts your shoulder get a wider strap? Lets can all those crappy old Marshall cabs with all them metal handles and ply backs that weigh so much,Behringer makes nice chip board ones that weigh 20lbs.

That doesn't seem like a question. Considering your vested interests, I'm sure you love your instruments.

If you really are asking a question, the fact is the 3-bolt neck shouldn't require shimming. It was designed by Mr. Fender to fit securely in the neck pocket. Quite often this design was not executed as intended. Less neck to body contact, typically equals less sustain. The diecast trem was made of a lesser quality metal, simply not as strong or durable a unit. Besides the bar, it was an issue with the pivot points wearing out shifting the return to pitch point unpredictably. These are noted significant structural issues.

Thicker polyester undercoats do have an effect on resonance, even if one doesn't mind the tone. Non staggered pickups also effect tone because the string volume/tonal balance has changed compared to the staggered pole pieces.

The bullet truss, larger headstock (which actually first appeared in the sixties) is a visual preference kind of thing. I think it's telling that Fender undid most of the changes that were made in that period and/or committed themselves to improving the ideas.

If you were just ranting... perhaps this reply wasn't necessary. If not, all of this has been documented in several places. At one time I thought a MIM with a neck pocket/neck joint you could slip a credit card into was just fine... it was still playable. But, so is a banjo with one string, a moonshine jug, a pair of spoons, my knees and a loose woman; but, I'm not going to spend an appreciable amount of time with any of the aforementioned.

[worldoftone]

I've got a few of them. They have their own vibe and tone, just as the 50s and just as the 60s ones do. My main guitar for years was a Oly. White '75. I think a lot of it was perpetuated by dealers to get more $$$ for their earlier Strats.

- WOT

[Guitar-Sam]

Could be.I've actually played a couple 50s strats I didn't think were as good as my 70s ones I've had. I still think era/model/etc.. aside tone is a guitar to guitar basis.
Wasn't ranting,moreless confused about why there is so much bad hype.

[Bluesgeetar]

I think alot of that vintage tone was low output PUPS. There was some store on ebay selling a bunch of vintage 50's 60's and 70's strat pups a wayz back i I saved a pic of all of them. i think there was about 13 and then he also had some old tele too that I saved pics of. reason? In the pics he also included the resistance measured of each pickup. I don't think I saw but one set that barely broke over 6K. Pisses me off that Fralin is peddling pups that he calls vintage style but are wound 6.9k to 7.5k range. Seems to me after all the research that I've done that low output strat PUPS get closer to vintage if you went by resistance specs. Then there is magnets! Read one report by an engineering department doing tests on different guitar PUPS in relation to music and PUPS engineering and a set of vintage 69 strat PUPS had Alnico 3 mag rods in it. Hmmmmm? Something is afoot! Just like for the longest Most peaple thought Gibson only used A5 mags until the internet came along and info started being shared. hmmmmmmm?

[lcampz]

Great points Bluesgeetar!

The question was "Why?" The answers continue to roll in. But, what is for sure is that manufacturers did things differently at different times. Sometimes it was because that's all the supplies they could get their hands on at the time. Sometimes it was premeditated by cutting costs for the bottom line profit. Sometimes it was made the instruments better and sometimes really downgraded the quality. Like tubetramp said about tubes, tone is each to his own... but whether or not something is actually built well is a whole other story.

The more I look into these things, the more I realize just how much I didn't and still don't know. We only know what we know because someone decided to reveal it or we pull the crap apart ourselves and had a look see. Often, that leads to very disappointing discoveries and kills the mojo factor.

[Bluesgeetar]

I've been chasing that elusive late 60's strat tone ie 68, 69,70 and after much exhaustive research I think i am ready to order a strat set of staggered pole alnico 3 rods wound with plain enamel not formvar and wound with neck at 5.1k middle 5.3k and bridge at 5.6k. Fralin says they can do that for me so I'm good to go. I think that with the bright and punchy vintage style Callaham bridge and the darker rounder sounding A3 and darker sounding plain enamel with brighter more jangly low output winds that this will be the recipe I have been looking for.

[Guitar-Sam]

Actually maybe they were alnico 5s that have just deguassed over the years to weaker 3 strength?? Or is there a way to tell by the magnet rods them selfs?

[electricskychurch]

i met a nice guy recently and he came home with a 66' hardtail strat (rosewood fretboard / alder body) as well as a L serie 63' strat with tremolo (rosewood/ alder) .
we plugged in my original 66' park 45 and a jtm45 repro i built ; i had never heard a good strat before (in direct i mean) !
i don't know if it's possible to find an actual custom shop ri that sounds like that but the guy told me no way !
it seems he went through several strats before these ones and bought some custom shop and master built ones without satisfaction !
he said he tried Lollar pu's and some others and they sounded too modern for him.
i can't sleep since i heard them !
we used original greenback g12h30's 75hz in a 2x12" and a 4x12" , pure jimi hendrix tone in heaven man !!!!!!
we tried a late 60's silicon fuzz face , an earlier one with nkt275 and a colorsound thin box 70's germanium tonebender; woahhhhhhh !
i need to get a real good strat man !

i have had several recent production ones (modern and vintage style) but didn't own a custom shop one yet.

the tone of both despite the hardtail, was quiet similar.
the hardtail one had maybe a bit less scoopped mids, a little less high end but still a great strat .
i wouldn't have said one was a hardtail and the other a tremolo model , just listening to them, nor heard a difference in the guitar tone that could have made me suppose the guitar's structures were different , just listening to them.
the mids were so complex and creamy in both, no glassy or piercing high end like i heard on some actual vintage style strats (with several tests and different pu's inside !) nor any dull sound like some american standard stratocaster i heard (all in fact !)

[electricskychurch]

i never had any vintage Gibson either, but i'm not sure the difference between 60's Gibson guitars and good actual custom shop ri's with good high end repro PAF or T-Top pu's would be as big a the one i heard untill now between the actual (since the 80's) strats compared to the 60's ones i heard recently !
i bought two pairs of late 60's T-Top and compared them with some good high end actual repros (some WCR not to say the name ) and they didn't seem that far, although i have to make some more tests and for a little longer time.
the best would be to record them in fact , to listen to them peacefuly and totaly focused

are the PAF and T-Top pu's better repros than strat pu's repros ?

Men, i'm hooked up; it seems even more addictive than drugs !
just a few hours and it's done man , never try a good stratocaster ; you can't go back !!! LOL

[rjgtr]

As someone who was selling 70s strats in the 70s, I can say it one word - quality. They just didn't have the same quality as the earlier guitars. The neck pocket tolerance wasn't as good and there were a lot of variability with other aspects of the builds. The parts, like the bridges, also began to be made more cheaply. The necks weren't made the same in the 70s with a thinner rosewood slab and maple necks with a maple slab, where in the 60s and 70s the necks were one piece (with the skunk stripe).

There's a reason why they returned to the build specs of the 50s and 60s guitars once CBS was out of the picture. The guitars were generally better and what the players wanted.

But that doesn't mean all 70s strats where bad. Some are quite good guitars, just as there were a few duds in the 50s and 60s. It's just the 70s had more issues. It's just in the 70s the ratio of good to bad was worse. QC was secondary to shipping totals.

Having beat up on Fender, Gibson and Martin also had issues in the 70s, so it seems like all the biggies were having issues. This is why the Japanese copy guitars did so well - they were actually arguably better made.

[Bluesgeetar]

Actually maybe they were alnico 5s that have just deguassed over the years to weaker 3 strength?? Or is there a way to tell by the magnet rods them selfs?

I suppose any engineering department worth it's salt would easily be able to get metalurgical analysis done.

Alnico 3 would be really easy to determine as it doesn't even have any cobalt in it. There may even be some easy chemical reaction test that could be done if there were a chemical that reacted only to cobalt being present.

[worldoftone]

It's just in the 70s the ratio of good to bad was worse.

That's what I have seen. You have to play a lot of 70s Strats to find a good one opposed to the earlier guitars.

- WOT

[HARLEYIII]

Im part of the minority that loves them. My uncle bought a '79 brand new, and it's the guitar I cut my teeth on. White turned yellow, with black pick guard, maple neck. Unsure of body wood, but it weighs more than my broes 72 LP Custom. I'll always love "Big Head" Strats

It's a shame the prices have climbed on them. I remember when you could buy 70's strats all day long (in GOOD shape) for $500 - $600 because no one wanted them.

[yngwie308]

In England when I had my transition logoed 1965 Strat, my buddy had a 1970 Strat and I played them both together and there was no comparison. The '70 felt cheap and plastic compared to the '65. And I didn't care for the finish or the large headstocks at the time. I knew Jimi got a great sound out of them, but he could make any Strat sound awesome. Over the years, in the last 15 or so, I have softened my attitude to the CBS era guitars. I like the feel of the maple board versions and they have their own vibe. I think Blackmore, Uli Jon, Yngwie and others have inspired the trend in '70's era Strats taking off in value.
Yet Yngwie converts all his 3 bolt necks to 4 bolt, so obviously the maple cap '70 vintage white is the optimum guitar of those years.
Some of the later '70's are only just getting some respect, being the poor relations of the Strat world for many years.
IT's just the differences were so dramatic when they first came out, plus the CBS aura of poor quality didn't help.
yngwie308