Metropoulos Forum

I would like to buy my first Les Paul soon, but I only have about a grand to spend on it. What would be the best one to get at that price. I'm open to different brands but I do not want the studio Gibson. I am willing to buy used. What would you get?

killpop99 wrote:I would like to buy my first Les Paul soon, but I only have about a grand to spend on it. What would be the best one to get at that price. I'm open to different brands but I do not want the studio Gibson. I am willing to buy used. What would you get?

Under a grand, you'll have to go with Epi and upgrade parts... end up spending as much as you would have for a real Gibby.


You could always have a look at the Agile guitars. Never played one but they look real attractive:
http://www.rondomusic.com/product1075.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's always Tokai.

Why not the Les Paul Studio? Often available used under a grand, and my '96 is killer........

Flames1950 wrote: Why not the Les Paul Studio? Often available used under a grand, and my '96 is killer........

+1

I'd rather get a studio than a compromise. The only diff with the studio and a standard is esthetics.

I do care about aesthetics. I've never really liked the looks of the studio. They just don't look right without binding. I'm considering a warmoth. Some of the classics go for about $1200 also. What about Edwards, Greco, and some of the other Japanese companies?

the lower end tokais are ok but not great. the high end models are great but the waiting time is about a half year. the lss370 is expensive. the lss195 is great if you like p90. still more than a grand though

killpop99 wrote:I would like to buy my first Les Paul soon, but I only have about a grand to spend on it. What would be the best one to get at that price. I'm open to different brands but I do not want the studio Gibson. I am willing to buy used. What would you get?

jcmjmp wrote:Under a grand, you'll have to go with Epi and upgrade parts... end up spending as much as you would have for a real Gibby.

For what its worth, Pop, I would wait the necessary time and save the extra bucks you'll need and get the Gibson LP you would REALLY want to own, as opposed to doctoring up some "non-LP" into a "never really gonna be" LP. (I know the idea sucks cause you want it now, BUT...)
No matter how you cut it, there's no substitute for the real thing. Im no great fan of Gibson as a company, but if you're a LP guy, you either have one or you want one. If you "sugar coat" an Epiphone or some other copy, you'll own it for a while, continue to dream about a REAL LP, sell the copy at a loss, and start all over again till you get a real LP, cause no Epiphone, Korean (OR American) PRS, Tokai, or anything else, will ever be a real Gibson LP, and there WILL be a difference you'll hear and feel.
Its pretty much as simple as that, Im afraid. Been there, done that (many times).

killpop99 wrote: I'm considering a warmoth.

For a LP? Yuck.

Thanks guys, I guess I'll take Fillmore's advice. Gibson is charging waaay too much these days. Just a couple of years ago the classics were $1600, now they are well above 2k. Oh well.

fillmore nyc wrote:

killpop99 wrote:I would like to buy my first Les Paul soon, but I only have about a grand to spend on it. What would be the best one to get at that price. I'm open to different brands but I do not want the studio Gibson. I am willing to buy used. What would you get?

jcmjmp wrote:Under a grand, you'll have to go with Epi and upgrade parts... end up spending as much as you would have for a real Gibby.

For what its worth, Pop, I would wait the necessary time and save the extra bucks you'll need and get the Gibson LP you would REALLY want to own, as opposed to doctoring up some "non-LP" into a "never really gonna be" LP. (I know the idea sucks cause you want it now, BUT...)
No matter how you cut it, there's no substitute for the real thing. Im no great fan of Gibson as a company, but if you're a LP guy, you either have one or you want one. If you "sugar coat" an Epiphone or some other copy, you'll own it for a while, continue to dream about a REAL LP, sell the copy at a loss, and start all over again till you get a real LP, cause no Epiphone, Korean (OR American) PRS, Tokai, or anything else, will ever be a real Gibson LP, and there WILL be a difference you'll hear and feel.
Its pretty much as simple as that, Im afraid. Been there, done that (many times).

Do you mean to say that the tokais are poorer than the gibson in terms of tone, construction or playability? or that the price is higher?

killpop99 wrote:I do care about aesthetics. I've never really liked the looks of the studio. They just don't look right without binding. I'm considering a warmoth. Some of the classics go for about $1200 also. What about Edwards, Greco, and some of the other Japanese companies?

Go for japanese burnys from mid 80ties or greco (you have to be careful, some are hollowbodied). Burny customs are all mahogany with macassar ebony fretboards (I had three pickup version) To me, their pickups are better than current gibson production. They're always around 7.6-8.3k. The only thing that I recommend is to put RS kit in every single guitar and that's it. I had probably 8-9 burnys LP at home, 4 greco LP.. it's the you can buy best within 1000$ range.
i've got several videos over here, mostly played on amplitube but it'll give you the picture http://www.youtube.com/user/1982hitman" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Roe wrote:Do you mean to say that the tokais are poorer than the gibson in terms of tone, construction or playability? or that the price is higher?

IMO, the quality of a Tokai cant be compared to an actual LP. In terms of construction, wood selection, fit and finish, hardware, electronics, etc, there IS no comparison. Like I said, I think Gibson is far from perfect as a company, but they have the formula down as far as putting together a combination that works. Yeah, they cost WAAYY more than a Tokai, most PRS's, etc, but in terms of plugging it into a good amp and wailing??? There's a big difference. If money is an issue, thats a different subject. Then a person has to do with what will fit into his budget.
Im sure there are a lot of guys that put together a great guitar from a copy "donor" piece, but I dont think its the norm. It would have to be something really special to even come close, IMO.
Im well aware of the differences between PRS and Gibson (scale length, double cutaway, etc) and PRS IS a good quality guitar. A couple of years ago I had an awesome PRS Custom 22, with the McCarty switching option (volume, tone, 3 way switch). Loved the playability, did NOT like the tone. At the same time, I had a Gibson SG with KILLER pickups, but the neck was horrible. Twisted, bowed... in real bad shape. I decided to combine the best of the two, in putting the SG pickups into the PRS, figuring I'd have a sweet playing LP killer. NOT!!
It never sounded anything close to a decent LP, even though it had virtually the same pickups. Totally lacked the "chunk" factor of a LP, even though it had the wide/fat neck, a maple top and a mahogany back. Granted, it DOES have a 25" scale as compared to the 24 3/4" scale of a LP, but even with good woods, high quality construction and great hardware, it didnt even come close.
As far as a Tokai, with the hardware they use, and indiscriminate wood selection, etc, I dont think its gonna measure up. It can be tried, but I think the results will be lackluster. I still would stick with saving the bucks and getting the real thing. Thats just my honest opinion.

fillmore nyc wrote:

Roe wrote:Do you mean to say that the tokais are poorer than the gibson in terms of tone, construction or playability? or that the price is higher?

IMO, the quality of a Tokai cant be compared to an actual LP. In terms of construction, wood selection, fit and finish, hardware, electronics, etc, there IS no comparison. Like I said, I think Gibson is far from perfect as a company, but they have the formula down as far as putting together a combination that works. Yeah, they cost WAAYY more than a Tokai, most PRS's, etc, but in terms of plugging it into a good amp and wailing??? There's a big difference.
...
As far as a Tokai, with the hardware they use, and indiscriminate wood selection, etc, I dont think its gonna measure up. It can be tried, but I think the results will be lackluster. I still would stick with saving the bucks and getting the real thing. Thats just my honest opinion.

well tokai is using 1pc hunduran mahogny and even some braz fretboard and some bumblebees. thats way better than what gibson use (or have used since since the 60s). however, the highend tokais are much harder to get hold of than gibsons. and some of the gibsons are nice.
Gibson use japanese hardware as tokai does. much it is made by gotoh. tokai use brass saddles - I don't thing gibson have used that since the 50s. and tokai use aluminum tailpieces.

It seems that you dont know much about tokais - perhaps you have only looked at their low end models?

Roe wrote:It seems that you dont know much about tokais - perhaps you have only looked at their low end models?

Well, you're right about that... I really DONT know that much about recent Tokai's. Maybe they've come around in quality "behind my back" so to speak.
The LP's I own are all Gibsons, but I gotta say (maybe ignorantly) that I'd like to see a Tokai that could compare to a '58 or '59 Gibson LP reissue, much less a vintage LP.
One of my LP's is a late '50's Standard, and I've never played anything that even comes close to it, but a comparison to that guitar is kinda unfair. The best '58 or '59 reissue I've seen just cant match it in terms of playability, openness of tone and overall vibe. They're both in the same relative ballpark, but there IS a tangible and audible difference. It just FEELS warm and soft to the touch, like a perfectly worn pair of jeans.
Anyway, Im gonna take a better look at a Tokai next time I see one. I dont mind standing corrected on this issue. If what you say about them is accurate, then it must be a pretty decent guitar.

the highend tokais I've tried kills most new gibsons, including the historics. that's my experience at least. and other players that have compared many of these guitars tend to agree