Metropoulos Forum

After reading George's T tops / Throbak comparison thread, I decided to take a few measurements of my own. The results have my scratching my head.

The guitar is a 1968 Gibson SG with Pat No. 2,737,842 humbuckers. This guitar has always sounded a bit quieter and perhaps a tad thinner than others I have owned. I chalked it up to either the paper thin SG body design, or that the pups were just old and probably lacked the output of todays humbuckers. However, my measurements show that they are in fact "weaker" than similar vintage Gibson pups. I'm getting 7.20k in the bridge and 6.86k for the neck.

George's T tops are measuring 7.81 neck, 7.83 bridge. This article/interview with Lindy Fralin: http://www.flyingvintage.com/gcmag/PAF.html states that the "1963-1975 patent number decal pickups are very consistent in sound and resistance at 7.5 K ohms nominally."

Is that normal? Do I need a rewinding? Could this be the symptom of some aging wiring? Magnetic degradation? Bad pots? Rotting switch?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Justin L wrote:After reading George's T tops / Throbak comparison thread, I decided to take a few measurements of my own. The results have my scratching my head.

The guitar is a 1968 Gibson SG with Pat No. 2,737,842 humbuckers. This guitar has always sounded a bit quieter and perhaps a tad thinner than others I have owned. I chalked it up to either the paper thin SG body design, or that the pups were just old and probably lacked the output of todays humbuckers. However, my measurements show that they are in fact "weaker" than similar vintage Gibson pups. I'm getting 7.20k in the bridge and 6.86k for the neck.

George's T tops are measuring 7.81 neck, 7.83 bridge. This article/interview with Lindy Fralin: http://www.flyingvintage.com/gcmag/PAF.html states that the "1963-1975 patent number decal pickups are very consistent in sound and resistance at 7.5 K ohms nominally."

Is that normal? Do I need a rewinding? Could this be the symptom of some aging wiring? Magnetic degradation? Bad pots? Rotting switch?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

7.2k and 6.86k are somewhat on the weak side. Resistance doesnt tell the whole story, but on older pickups, its really the only way to judge. Most fairly chunky sounding pickups will read in the high 7k to low 8k range for the bridge, and low to mid 7k for the neck. That will usually give a relatively strong (vintage) output, and the guitar will be balanced in output from neck to bridge.
The exception to this is Jim from WCR's Fillmore set, which still have a (strong) vintage output, but read way higher... like 13k at the bridge and around 11k at the neck, but he's got some wicked hoodoo-voodoo magic he works on those bad boys.
I wouldnt rewind those pickups you've got, unless you're 1127% sure you're NEVER EVER gonna sell the guitar, and even then... think REAL hard before screwing with the guitars originality. Really, just find a set of pup's you really like (like the aforementioned Fillmore's, or a WCR Crossroads set), and put the originals in a bag and store 'em. If you ever decide to sell the guitar, you can bring it back to stock easily.

Hey Justin....

The Magnet wire on yours are a bit out of spec with the diameter of the normal 42 awg wire and is why your resistance is a bit lower- This was not uncommon, but not a problem for Gibson either. The Gibson Law was pretty easy- Full them up, send them out. DOn't touch those- You could get around 3-400 on e-bay for them, and those lower spec are quite desireable also. Tuck those away til you need them...

Thanks for the replies guys. Sounds like a good strategy. Much appreciated.

Lower resistance usually means more highs and less mids,from what I've read and my own(little bit of)expieriance swapping pups.So that doesn't make them BAD in anyway.Just a differant sound.Stick them in a dark mellow sounding guitar and they may be the C@t's @ss.
If the pickups have a ohm reading(continuity)they don't need a rewind and you would be waaaaaayyyyyyy better off buying a set of higher output pickups than rewinding/devaluing a set of T tops IMHO.
Ohms,T tops,PAFs,Formvar etc...etc... aside,the eyes closed listening test is the only test of pickups.

one thing i have noticed is that the resistence you measure also depends on the temperature of the room you measure them in.
lower temperature seems to lower the resistence you measure.
so depending on the temperature George had in his room when he measured them, they could be lower in fact.
my T- tops are all about 7,2 to 7,7K and i have enough output of every type of 60's 70's rock !