Metropoulos Forum

Man, though the Green/Moore '59, Becks '54, Page's '58, all sound great and influenced million's, I think the single greatest influence to rock guitar as we know it,TONEWISE, was Clapton's 1960 Les Paul.

I dont know much about it and would like some info. All I know is that it was a 1960 model, possibly tobacco burst, and that it got stolen at a early Cream rehearsal.

I've heard that the pafs were especially hot, this and that. Wasnt the necks on the 1960 models a bit thiner than on the '58 and '59 models ?

Any info would be appreciated, thanks.

Page's LPs are both from 59.

Tone Slinger wrote:Man, though the Green/Moore '59, Becks '54, Page's '58, all sound great and influenced million's, I think the single greatest influence to rock guitar as we know it,TONEWISE, was Clapton's 1960 Les Paul.

I dont know much about it and would like some info. All I know is that it was a 1960 model, possibly tobacco burst, and that it got stolen at a early Cream rehearsal.

I've heard that the pafs were especially hot, this and that. Wasnt the necks on the 1960 models a bit thiner than on the '58 and '59 models ?

Any info would be appreciated, thanks.

the 1960 standard Pauls did have a slimmer neck than the 58s and 59s, and so do the current reissues Gibson is doing, I would like some info on that Clapton Les Paul as well.

What I know about that LP was that it had both its pickup covers removed, which Clapton said greatly improved the tone and was recorded with its covers off. Neck was double white and the bridge was double black. It was very likely a 1960 as Clapton has been quoted to have enjoyed the guitar particularly for the sound and the "slim neck," which is an indication of the guitar being a 1960 since they switched to slim necks a little way through 1960. It was stolen unfortunately during a Cream rehearsal and consequently Fresh Cream was recorded using a borrowed LP. Have a look at this: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/sh ... p?t=913820" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; There's a bit on the LP you're interested in.

if he took the covers off, i suppose the guitar tone was quiet dark or teh pu's were overwound cause otherwise they certainly don't need to take the covers off !
thin neck and overwound pu's can make a darker tone compared to a bigger neck and lower output pu's

Seymour duncan said the magnets were probably a4. he stressed that the magnets were weak. I believe he actually saw that guitar.
I'm not conviced the pups were hot. could have been low or medium output. The guitar must have had a very good attack

Has "anyone" seen that guitar since 1966? It was stolen during early Cream rehearsals, remember, so where Seymour Duncan would have "seen" it God only knows. And even if he did see it as some point, how could he say they were probably A4s? By external inspection? Sorry, that one sounds rather far-fetched to me. The magnets could have been on the weak side, I agree with that though. I don't think those pickups were particularly hot at all, but open and fairly bright though not shrill sounding. Classic PAF, in other words.

If I remember correctly duncan said he saw the guitar before it was stolen. He made a qualified guess it was a4

usualy 50's les paul are said to be bright/clear sounding , so when using a jtm45 or bluesbreaker i don't really think you need to take the cover off to get a bright tone on a 50's les paul but it doesn't give much more output without cover .
if you have already a bright tone and take the covers off, you have even more brightness, what may be too much on low output/ clear sounding PAF'S.
having both a 66 park45/jtm45 with drake 784 103 and an original radiospares OT i tried in a jtm45 i built with mullard caps as well as several different types of pre and early rola celestion speakers, i don't feel teh need to take the covers off on most of my pu's in my les paul 59 ri's nor SG's (I have several late 60's T-tops sets , WCR's, fralin, seth lover, skatterbrane...except maybe teh classic 57 that are very dark, when i was using them).
the tone clapton has on teh bluesbreaker LP is quiet clear (open cabs are clearer than closed ones) , that's right but not that much (although ther's teh recording process) and i would tend to think he would have raised the pu's height for more output unless it was particularly low output (about 7k) but i'm not sure he would have loved the tone of very low output PAF , without cover, i suppose it would be brighter than a T-Top (or post 61' pu's) , what is already bright.
in another hand, some people seemed to want even more "something" from a T-top as they were taking teh covers off (i suppose it was not to get more clarity out of them !)
i don't have a 50's PAF but from what i have read from several pu's builders and my experience with all my pu's i would have tend to think he took it off for more clarity (knowing PAf's could be wound up to 10k, so he could have just lowered the pu' to get less output) but that's just a guess and i may be wrong ! LOL
he might just have tried to see how it was sounding without cover , to get more output as well, that's right.
it would be interesting to see teh pu's heigth on his les paul 60', on some pictures or video if there are some.
if they are quiet low, then it might not have been for more output.

Clapton inspired Gary Moore as did Peter Green later, but initially it was Clappo who burned the flame with his Les Paul Standard and Marshall KT-66 equipped Bluesbreaker, turned full up, they were telling him to turn down in the studio, but he stood firm!!
That sound inspired hundreds around the world to pick up an axe and let fly, it was ok to crank it and it was the sound, no need for attenuation..
yngwie308

attenuators suck !

The way I heard the guitar was recorded was Clapton, as was already stated, refused to turn down his amp, which was set full up, and a mic was placed in the far end of the room since engineers just didn't know how to deal with volume and the album was recorded largely in a live setting, further emphasizing the enormous volume coming from Clapton, much to the dismay of the sound engineers. I even heard that they would have succeeded in forcing Clapton to turn down had Jimmy Page, who was present during the album's recording, not said he loved the tone. Clapton's justification for the incredible amounts of volume (and TONE!) that was coming from his amp is that he wanted to sound like the band did live, creating a whole new sound, being that few had experimented distortion (Keith Richards had experimented with fuzz on such tracks as Satisfaction) prior to the Beano album and Clapton did a lot in terms of influence on tone and guitar choice for future guitarists.

Peter Green liked Eric's 1960 Les Paul Standard better than his big necked 1959 Greeny at the time..Eric's LP was famously stolen, but Greeny's guitar case at the time Gary got her from Peter, was the one from Eric's guitar..it had a broken latch and Gary had to hold the case closed and kept it under his bed in whatever flat he was living, guarding it...what a legacy!


yngwie308

I don't mean this in a rude way, but Ynwie, those are pics of different LPs than the one we're talking about. The one with the Bigsby was the one used to record Fresh Cream, and the one without the swich plate, though also a 1960, was one borrowed when the Beano LP was stolen and Clapton needed a new axe. It was borrowed from Andy Summers I think. But I'm not sure who the Bigsby Les Paul's owner was before Eric. Again, don't mean to sound rude or picky in any way.

No offense taken, I was just showing some pics I had, they are from a later Cream era that's true..
the famous Beano pic with EC and the Bluesbreaker amp, everyone has seen and there have been threads ad nauseum about the earlier LP and it's whereabouts. Every other month on the LPF, a thread starts: is this EC's old LP??
yngwie308