Humbucker Strat for Jimmy Herring/Derek Trucks Sound

[basile865]

Hey everybody. Right now I'm putting together a strat to be real extra stratty. All vintage specs, lightweight alder, 7 1/4 radius tiny fret U shape neck. Its going to be a beaut.

I'm thinking of taking my custom shop 69's out of my current am. standard strat to use for the new project and doing a dual humbucker setup for the american standard. I've always loved Derek Trucks' tone and I'm also starting to study Jimmy Herring. The other day I realized the majority of that sound comes from humbuckers pushing the hell out of a cranked blackface fender. Its actually really close to the golden tone in my head - which right now I go for with single coils into an Xotic RC booster into a 100 watt plexi.

Trying a different recipe now though with the humbuckers and fender rig.

So now for the question!
I'm sure its really simple. If I want to take the strats 2 tones, and 1 volume, and turn it into 2 volumes (one for each pickup) and a master tone knob is that doable. AND, would I need to actually swap out the 250K pots for 500K?

As a side question I've read Derek has modified his SG's internals minorly by changing his tone caps to allow much more bass. How exactly would one do that and what would be an example of the stock value change to the value that would allow for more bass? If that makes sense.

Thankyou for your help everybody.

[spaceace76]

If I want to take the strats 2 tones, and 1 volume, and turn it into 2 volumes (one for each pickup) and a master tone knob is that doable.

yes, quite easily actually. unless you're planning on trying wacky extra pup combos, you'll probably want a 3 way switch

would I need to actually swap out the 250K pots for 500K?

that's the traditional value used with humbuckers. it's up to you to decide but you'll likely take the traditional value over the strat value.

Derek has modified his SG's internals minorly by changing his tone caps to allow much more bass

to be honest this statement doesn't make much sense. tone controls are passive, and can't add any frequency that isn't there. you can passively emphasize one frequency range over another though. but the statement you've presented is somewhat unspecific. does it mean that with the tone control all the way off, there is more bass (less highs) than a standard value? or does it mean on 10 there is more bass than normal? can you point us to the article where you read this? it sort of sounds like a tone chaser red herring if you ask me

[fillmore nyc]

Trying a different recipe now though with the humbuckers and fender rig.
So now for the question!
I'm sure its really simple. If I want to take the strats 2 tones, and 1 volume, and turn it into 2 volumes (one for each pickup) and a master tone knob is that doable. AND, would I need to actually swap out the 250K pots for 500K?

As a side question I've read Derek has modified his SG's internals minorly by changing his tone caps to allow much more bass. How exactly would one do that and what would be an example of the stock value change to the value that would allow for more bass? If that makes sense.

Thankyou for your help everybody.

Hey, Basile...
The first thing thats gonna shoot you in the foot right from the get-go with this project is that you're using a 25 1/2" scale guitar as your platform. To even begin to start going after Derek Trucks tone, you gotta start with a 24 3/4" scale, like his SG.
It wouldnt even make sense to start recommending pickups and tone cap mods cause you'll never achieve the same tone with a Strat scale, not to mention a Strats bridge as compared to a tune-o-matic / stoptail.

And what Spaceace wrote is true... you cant "add bass" with a passive tone circuit. You can muddy it up a bit to give the effect of less treble, but in a passive circuit, you have what you have and thats it.
I know thats probably not what you wanna hear, but if you're really serious about copping a specific tone, you've gotta have the right foundation.

Look at all the shit guys have gone thru to get EVH's amp tone... you're not gonna get it with a Fender Twin as your starting platform, bro, know what I mean??

[basile865]

Hey guys. That all makes good sense. The adding bass thing I had just read on a forum somewhere and was curious about that. But the passive thing makes sense.

As far as the scale goes - I'm not trying to nail Derek's tone, I'm just trying to get in the ball park. Gibson scale is too short for my tastes, otherwise I'd buy a gibson of some sort. My american std. is already factory routed for humbuckers so I'm just going to go that route. Not to mention Jimmy Herring uses a humbucker loaded strat. If you guys are unfamiliar with him you really should check him out - he's a nut on guitar!

Out of curiosity, what would be the difference in sound by using a 250K pot vs. a 500K. Does a 500K just add more range? If so, what would happen to a basic strat if you used 500K pots? Would you be able to push the pickups harder?

[fillmore nyc]

Out of curiosity, what would be the difference in sound by using a 250K pot vs. a 500K. Does a 500K just add more range? If so, what would happen to a basic strat if you used 500K pots? Would you be able to push the pickups harder?

A 500k pot will make the guitar sound slightly brighter because its harder for high frequencies to get shunted to ground thru the resistance path of the pot... a 500k has more resistance than a 250k, so highs will have a harder time getting to ground (and therefore they will get to your amp) due to the pot value. A 1meg pot ups that scenario even further by being even more resistant to allowing high frequencies to pass thru it, therefore getting even more of whats available from your pickups to the amp.

The ultimate extension of this theory is that if you hardwired a pickup straight to the output jack of the guitar, there would only be the resistance of the pickup itself and the guitars wiring (and whatever 1/4" guitar cable you use) to impede highs, which you already have by default. The amp would "see" the maximum frequency response and output the pickup is capable of... anything else that you put in that signal path (pots, caps, etc) provide some resistance and capacitance, and therefore suck up some highs.

I dont really know what you mean by "pushing the pickups harder" with a 500k pot.

Bottom line is that you can tweak the high end of any guitar by playing around with pot values. Some guys will use a 250k for the volume and a 1meg for the tone pot, all 500k's in a Strat or Tele for a brighter sound, 250k's with humbuckers if you want a darker sound, etc.

Its all in the experimentation to find what sounds good to you, but the idea is: higher pot value= brighter, lower pot value=darker, and as far as volume / tone pots, you can mix-n-match values to really fine tune your rig.

[spaceace76]

yeah, +1 to what he said

[basile865]

what I meant by pushing the pickups harder was having more output. As if a 500K would allow more signal to hit the magnets. Like a clapton strat with the active boost circuit. But I know now thats not the case itd just make it brighter. Not something I'd want! Thanks for the help