Floyd Rose tone- top mount vs. recessed

[Tone Slinger]

I have had several top mount strat styles over the yrs. but only ONE recessed, and that was in like 1990 when I was tryin my best to keep up with the Jones' (I mean shredders ). That was an RG Ibanez (basically like a Steve Vai without the 'monkey grip').It was a ibanez 'floyd licensed' trem. That guitar played like butter,but I never really liked its overall tone(may have been the actual tremelo.IMO a german floyd is tops in tone for a double locking).

So, my question is how would a recessed floyd sound in a regular strat body (no Rg Ibanez, etc)? I actually like the sound of my Warmoth strat with floyd Rose (top mounted), but, the bridge sits higher than a standard 6 screw trem(which I'm totally used to) . The recess would make the floyd sit lower like the 6 screw.I could care less about pulling upon the bar and/or floating,its the bridge height I'm going for. There are no production model strats out there with the recessed rout to try. I do recall likeing the N4 Washburns (recessed floyd) and the Peavey Wolfgang.

So is a recess route a tone killer ?

[garbeaj]

Theoretically it shouldn't be a tone killer as long as the bridge is still non floating and rests on the wood as it does when it is top mounted.

I always thought that if I did a Fender strat with a Floyd (other than a Frankenstein style guitar or replica thereof) I might try to recess a good German Floyd (like the one you see on my Musikraft Kramer) on a black strat with a rosewood neck and CBS headstock like Matthias Jabs old black strat (though his has the bullet truss rod adjustment and I can't stand those!)

Anyway, I think a good deal of the tone comes from the bridge contacting the wood, whether it is a Floyd or a standard Fender tremolo. It seems like it can still be recessed to give the bridge a more Fender tremolo like height and still contacting the wood in the recessed area.

[Tone Slinger]

I am holding out on the idea that a recessed floyd will still sound good. All the ibanez models I try sound pretty bad to me (those are just about the only recessed double locking guitars around in current production to try). The Deans I recall being better sounding than the Ibanez. The top mount sounds good (with a floyd that is),but the neck and bridge is too far from my body,causing the comfortable position of my wrist (comfortable like when I'm playing a vintage 6 screw style trem guitar) to be too far foward. That and my right hands picking angle.

[demonufo]

I suspect the basswood body of the Ibanez has the biggest impact here...

[stef]

What do you guys have against basswood!?
It doesn't look good, doesn't sound good, doesn't hold the screws, too soft even for sober guitar players etc... but some of us just love to hate poor 'asswood

[Tone Slinger]

Ha, Ha, I agree, basswood is my least favorite wood,it just echoes that type of playing that is supposidly 'high technical proficiency' , like those super technical guys who get the VERY generic distorted guitar tones ( ala John Pettruci, yeah, I said it ). Still, there are some nice basswood guitars, they are just, shall we say, VERY rare .

I was debating new build specs for another forthcoming KNE body, I thought it would be cool to get another floyd rose style. I think I'm resigned to the fact that I like the vintage Fender style tremelo bridge. I have a top mounted floyd on a Warmoth build and have to say that its the best guitar I've ever had or played that has a floyd. I'll just leave it to that guitar for what I need out of a floyd.

I'm gonna order another KNE Azusa body, just love those vintage Charvel contours/shape. Vintage 6 screw route like my first one,only this time I'm requesting a much lighter weight one .

[stef]

Ash or alder? Or swamp ash?

[Tone Slinger]

I'm leaning towards Alder. Truth is,is that I've always prefered Alder.With the exception of my hard ash Warmoth (with floyd) and my KNE Azusa (hard ash), I've had very little luck with hard ash. Same with swamp ash. On average I've found swamp ash to be scooped and bright but 'loose' and 'airy' sounding,not real firm. Sort of feeble. Hard ash, I've found to be very scooped and bright as well, but hard and aggressive, with a tad more lower mid than swamp ash (Oh yeah, boat anchor heavy too ).Still, the resonance just isnt to my likeing,but heavy ash does have that sustain. The two hard Ash guitars I have will be my only ones, its Alder from here on, cause on average, I've found Alder to be the best balanced when considering all the tone variables.

[Tone Slinger]

I regress, I am gonna get another floyd routed guitar body. I need a guitar that does EVERYTHING that I need it to do, in EVERY situation. As much as I like a vintage 6 screw tremelo (and uphold its authentic tone), the fact is that the amount of effort (and 'restraint') that they need to stay in tune, is MORE than I need to deal with, especially in the light of me writing and rehearsing in preparation of new projects .If I'm doing a vintage Van Halen set, I can totally get by on my vintage 6 screw equipped strats with no issues, BUT, when I'm doing 'ME', I run into problems. My Warmoth w/top mounted floyd is getting used WAY more than any other guitar at the moment, but, I'm just SO used to the more natural string angle and bridge height of my vintage 6 screw strats. So a order for a KNE body with rescessed floyd rose route will be placed soon .

[stef]

That's exactly why I went with a kne ash azusa with a floyd - top mounted and I actually prefer it for the right hand position and picking etc.. or just got used to it

[Tone Slinger]

I know what you mean Stef, I can get used to my top mounted Floyd, but I want to try and get the dimensions,playing-wise of my 6 screw trem, using a floyd rose. Hopefully the recessed route will accomplish that for me. In theory it should,but we will see. If it doesnt work out, then I'll be resigned to a top mount floyd and or my vintage 6 screw trem guitars.
I'm gonna go with a two piece alder San Dimas body. Should be no more tha 4 lbs .

[Tone Slinger]

Got in a jam/session today using my old Tokai strat (vintage tremelo) and my Warmoth (floyd). It NEVER FAILS, when I'm playing my best, its on a vintage tremelo equipped strat. Be it my Tokai or my KNE. Being honest, I think I've entered a mid life crisis or something. I was actually TRYING to be 18 again using a floyd manuever every time I soloed .
I came away from this jam fully realizing that, #1- I'll never be 18 again and #2- I'll never be able to get used to a floyd again, no matter how many mid lifes I go through, geesh, I cant believe what I 'thought' I was hearing

[joey]

I suspect the basswood body of the Ibanez has the biggest impact here...

I'm not so sure it's the basswood. How much of the basswood can you really be hearing when it's essentially coated in plastic, and the mechanical connection between the strings on a floating trem, and the body is only via two posts?

I'd say most of what your hearing is the hardware and electronics, and the lack of wood. I have a basswood Wolfie, and a non trem rg, and both are a different ball game compared to all the floating recessed trem guitars I have.

I much prefer the sound of the non floating trems, however I like the functionality of the the floaters. No free lunch.

[chrisom]

Back in '88, I cut the edges off my 1985 Kramer Focus 2000 so it would look like a Jackson "Dinky" (thanks Mr. Vai... ) and did the very route you are talking about into the body under the tremolo. I think I ended up having to route the neck pocket deeper to make it work right, or shimmed it. Doesn't KnE offer one as an option?

I think I tried it floating, non-floating, and also with wood screws going into body under each edge of Floyd bridge plate, so I could have a way to adjust the resting angle of the Floyd (it made a "clunk" when coming back to rest on the screws). I looked at pictures of EVH's Kramer resting on the body almost flat, which is why I deepened the neck pocket to be like what I thought I saw on his to achieve this. But having already routed, I ended up going w/ floating.

The angle I set the Floyd at determined the range of the "throw" of the tremolo, which determined whether I got EVH or Steve Stevens, Satriani or Vai types of tremolo action, each with it's own pros and cons. Bottom line- I think it will sound good any of these ways as long as you use an alder body...

[joey]

. Bottom line- I think it will sound good any of these ways as long as you use an alder body...

You can't quantify it that way. I have two USA fenders with alder, one of which is an '88 yjm, and they both sound like dick if I'm being honest, I've played epiphone copy's that sounded better. Likewise my most acoustically vibrant guitar I own is a basswood early 90's Jackson dinky reverse... Very responsive. that being said it is the most fussy guitar I have owned regarding electronics. I have yet to find a pickup set that it likes, all the other shredders I own, I throw what ever in and it just kind of sounds the way its supposed to.