FX loops coming to Metro.

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SDM
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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by SDM » Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:37 am

psychodave wrote:So what are the differences between loops "rev 1B" and the current offering of "rev3A". I see a lot of changes. :wink:
May look a little different now, but' it's the same loop at heart. I do get asked about this pretty often though, so a little history lesson for those interested:

The rev1B boards were the first version of the ZL loop that I released with Metro. We wanted things as dead simple as possible back then, no confusing options, extra parts, or controls. So I designed those first rev1B boards to be for pedal level loops only.

After a while, enough guys expressed interest in a line level version of the loop, modding rev1B boards for this purpose was not easy/practical, so rev2B was briefly introduced to try out the idea, see if it would be a worthwhile option. Intent was to just add the most basic provisions on to the board to allow for a line level possibility. Was just the bare minimum changes needed for that compared to Rev1B essentially.

Proved useful to have a line level option available, so I very soon after decided to do a third/final revision, rev3A (current). It came about mainly to just incorporate the line/pedal option permanently on the board in a way that makes assembling the loop as one or the other extremely easy to do. In the process, thought I'd also just "pretty" some things up a tad, make the trimmer top adjust for easier tweaking during assembly or install, make some other very minor changes (though NOT because they were needed or due to any existing problems in any way, but simply because I could, figured "why not?").

So, a line level option was the main driving force for the few revisions the loop went through. If not for that, rev1B would very likely still be the current version. The "heart" of the circuit has not changed, all 3 versions should perform the same in actual use. I still use early original rev1B loops in my own personal amps by the way. Though it would literally take me just a few minutes to swap them out for current rev3A versions (and I could get the loops for free to boot), it would still be be a waste time. I do not need/use line level effects, so don't need or want a line level version of the loop. After swapping out a rev1B loop for a rev3A pedal level loop, I would not hear any difference at all, hence just no point.

So, that's the story on the revisions. Most products evolve over time, and though the ZL loop has as well to some extent, those with earlier versions need not worry they are "missing out" on anything vs. the current version. Again, I still use the originals myself (and never plan to swap them out). The loops were designed from day one to be tonally transparent and very simple to use. That has not changed, you guys just have the option of ordering the ZL loop as line level (if desired) these days.

Last thing I should mention here is that the Metro store does not show a line level ZL loop option. If a line level loop is desired , you just need to specify that when you place your order. If one needs the usual pedal level version, nothing need be specified when ordering.

Thus ends the Zero Loss loop history lesson...

psychodave
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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by psychodave » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:01 am

Very cool information. Thank for sharing. I was asking since I have both versions.

So if you don't specify line level, you get 1B and if you do want line level you get 3A?

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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by SDM » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:50 pm

psychodave wrote:Very cool information. Thank for sharing. I was asking since I have both versions.

So if you don't specify line level, you get 1B and if you do want line level you get 3A?
No problem on the info. Only rev3A boards are produced today, the rev1B's haven't been made in quite some time now. Since the Rev3A board can be set up as line or pedal level, it covers both versions of the loop. There are a few component differences on the board (chosen during assembly to set the level desired), but both versions (pedal or line) are fully rev3A loops.

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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by psychodave » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:07 pm

Steve, while testing, do you solder to the new board? I bought a board from someone unused, but when I received it there was solder on the input pad and output pad as well as the B+ solder pad. Even one of the resistors included had solder on it. Would it ever leave metro like this?

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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by SDM » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:10 am

psychodave wrote:Steve, while testing, do you solder to the new board? I bought a board from someone unused, but when I received it there was solder on the input pad and output pad as well as the B+ solder pad. Even one of the resistors included had solder on it. Would it ever leave metro like this?
The pads are tinned (have a thin layer of solder over the copper pads that should be clean and mostly uniform), as that's just how the boards are manufactured, but the pads should have no other signs of soldering on them (no flux residue, no large amounts or lumps of solder or such on the pads or perhaps even blocking their holes).

I no longer assemble the boards myself, Metro has done that and the testing for quite a while now (and has done an excellent job). In the test procedure I developed for the loops, soldering of the in, out, and B+ pad is not needed (or desired) during testing. Special clips are used instead on the testing rig.

Ultimately would need to ask George/Metro on this though (and I will just to see if they've changed the test procedure recently for some reason), but I'd doubt they would need or want to solder these pads while testing as it'd unnecessarily slow things down by requiring extra work in the testing phase. Loops may seem like they'd be quick and simple to assemble, but it's surprisingly time consuming to do properly (and that of course is compounded when doing many at once). Metro assembles these by hand, not by machine, so even a few extra minutes unnecessarily added to testing each one could really add up.

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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by SDM » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:26 am

Asked George just to double check on the above. Metro does not solder those pads in testing, uses clips instead (as I had described above).

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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by BAN-ONE » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:38 pm

Hi Folks,
I've got a Wizard Modern Classic 50w head that I'd like to install one of these loops in. Do you know of any potential problems or fitment issues with the Wizard gear? My choice is between the Metro loop and the Marshall Reissue one.

Any infor would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by novosibir » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:32 am

The Marshall reissue loop is crap - tone-strangeing, noisy and w/o dynamics.

Larry
The fault almost always is sitting in front of the amp :wink:

Larry's Website now with included Pix's Gallery

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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by Deric » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:59 pm

Can anyone tell me the brand of jacks used on the Metro loop? I seem to have lost a nut and washer from one of mine.....ugh. I tried a couple of different ones I had but no go. They're close to the Cliff jacks I have but the threaded part needs to be longer.

Thanks!

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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by SDM » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:25 am

Deric wrote:Can anyone tell me the brand of jacks used on the Metro loop? I seem to have lost a nut and washer from one of mine.....ugh. I tried a couple of different ones I had but no go. They're close to the Cliff jacks I have but the threaded part needs to be longer.

Thanks!
Sent you a PM for getting replacement bits.

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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by neikeel » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:37 am

novosibir wrote:The Marshall reissue loop is crap - tone-strangeing, noisy and w/o dynamics.

Larry
I have been advised by a very reliable source ( :wink: ) that because of the way it interacts with the PI that the Marshall RI loop is ok in a pre-PIMV but less good in NMV mode?
Neil

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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by syscokid » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:02 pm

I thought this was a good thread to post a big "Thank You" for the Metro/SDM Zero Loss FX Loop Kit that I just installed in my DIY 2204. Of my 6 amps, only my Rivera Quiana has an effects loop, but I never have used it. Until now, I didn't know what I was missing. The Zero Loss is quiet and very transparent as previously described. With the excellent instructions and this Forum, the install was easy with excellent results. Muy Happy... :thumbsup:
FX Loop 1.JPG
FX Loop 1.JPG (121.4 KiB) Viewed 3943 times
FX Loop 2.JPG
FX Loop 2.JPG (119.71 KiB) Viewed 3943 times
FX Loop 3.JPG
FX Loop 3.JPG (65.15 KiB) Viewed 3943 times
"When I'm on stage and first plug in, and I feel a rush of air in my balls... That's when I know my guitar is sounding good!" -Leslie West

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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by erigm » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:26 am

Looks great!!!

What does that front panel switch do? Looks like it changes the slope resistor and treble cap for the EQ.
erigm

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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by syscokid » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:39 am

erigm wrote:Looks great!!!

What does that front panel switch do? Looks like it changes the slope resistor and treble cap for the EQ.
Yes...
It's one of these, with the minor changes in values:
3 in 1 Tone Stack.JPG
3 in 1 Tone Stack.JPG (77.42 KiB) Viewed 3928 times
"When I'm on stage and first plug in, and I feel a rush of air in my balls... That's when I know my guitar is sounding good!" -Leslie West

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Re: FX loops coming to Metro.

Post by erigm » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:00 am

Very nice! I often like that 47k/330p combination in the tonestack.
erigm

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