S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

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gluke
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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by gluke » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:37 am

CoffeeTones wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:38 am

Cool. 10k input grid on that stage? Can't see all the color bands. 1n bright cap? Post more clips when you get the chance. The amp sounds pretty meaty. I like it.
Nope, really nothing special just standard Marshall values. 68k, 2k7/.68 100k and .022 and shield trick. No bright cap on the added stage.
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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by gluke » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:47 am

I was comparing it to the track and the track is alot brighter. But after I saw the Eric Valentine video on how he EQs Slash in the studio and even on the SM57 adds alot of mid and bright, I think all that extra bright came from the board and not the amp itself. I think it's more important to get the gain and chunkiness right from the amp. It is a very chunky mod, very fun to play.
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CoffeeTones
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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by CoffeeTones » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:56 am

Yeah, I don't think 36 was bright and thin as most think. I believe it is a Levi, MK spec that will probably never make it to the internet.

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by gluke » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:23 am

I can really see why this would be a popular amp at SIR in 1986. Stock amps with this much gain was still 3-4 years away except maybe Mesa's.
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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by gluke » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:29 am

CoffeeTones wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:56 am
Yeah, I don't think 36 was bright and thin as most think. I believe it is a Levi, MK spec that will probably never make it to the internet.
Well, those who have been in contact with FL choose to keep it to themselves so the rest of us are left guessing. It is a fun guessing game though.

I can't help but think about how George Lynch rented the Levi modded amp and then was reffered to Tim Caswell.....
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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by Unique » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:03 am

gluke wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:47 am
I was comparing it to the track and the track is alot brighter. But after I saw the Eric Valentine video on how he EQs Slash in the studio and even on the SM57 adds alot of mid and bright, I think all that extra bright came from the board and not the amp itself. I think it's more important to get the gain and chunkiness right from the amp. It is a very chunky mod, very fun to play.
Your right, when mixing guitars it's normal practice to put a high pass filter on guitar tracks to clear up room for bass and drums. So if your were to 'solo' a guitar track out of a final mix it would sound bright and thin. But in the mix, it sits perfectly, while sounding great with all other instruments. Then take into account for all of the studio gear and their frequency response curves influencing that final sound. So the final recorded guitar tracks are slightly different than hearing everything live, as how it is coming out of the amp's speaker, even before you do any mixing.

Also remember, all of that older analog gear rolls off a lot of high end frequency in the process as well. From the mic, to mic pres, the cable runs, to the console, to the tape deck, there's a lot of gear there having a slight affect on the sound. Especially tape, which rolls off highs in such a pleasant way. That is how AFD was recorded, and it was the last full album recorded to tape at Geffen before they went all digital back in the day.

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by gluke » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:19 am

CoffeeTones wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:56 am
Yeah, I don't think 36 was bright and thin as most think. I believe it is a Levi, MK spec that will probably never make it to the internet.
But Duke also said this:

"Also the 34 has nothing in common with the real 36 mod, again different mods. Sure TC has been trying to get the real 36 too, and has had no success either lol. One more thing the real 36 mod is a highgain 80s mod, Listen to all the old Dokken & Doug Aldrich Lion tracks, The 36 sounds just like this tone."

I have tried this as well and it's also really close to the album tone. It's more gainy without the 150k from #34, but people said that #36 had no clean tone so maybe that's the way it should be. I can record a clip with this spec as well so you can hear what it sounds like.
Last edited by gluke on Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by gluke » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:26 am

Unique wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:03 am
Your right, when mixing guitars it's normal practice to put a high pass filter on guitar tracks to clear up room for bass and drums. So if your were to 'solo' a guitar track out of a final mix it would sound bright and thin. But in the mix, it sits perfectly, while sounding great with all other instruments. Then take into account for all of the studio gear and their frequency response curves influencing that final sound. So the final recorded guitar tracks are slightly different than hearing everything live, as how it is coming out of the amp's speaker, even before you do any mixing.
This is the video I was talking about (I'm sure it's somewhere in this tread already) at 15:30 somthin' he switches the EQ in and out on the SM57. A lot more mid and hi boost than I had expected.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz65qfczRmw

If you start tweaking your amp after that kinda EQ boost it ends up way too bright, or you get carried away and overcomplicate things trying to mimic the studio EQ.
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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by gluke » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:21 pm

This is the raw mod I made based on Duke's description above without any #34 tuning. It's very sensitive to the setting on the two gain pots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTPAe0OOkUY

Sorry about the sloppy playin. I don't do second takes....... That is for Youtubers and Instagrammers........ I'm busy modding.
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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by CoffeeTones » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:41 pm

That mod often sounds better with a 2n2 coupling cap at stage 1. It calms the amp some, an pulls some bass, boosts mids. Works better in 100 vs 50 watt amps. Works good with .68u presence cap as well. 3k3 //.68u works well on stage 1 too. Another sort of off topic thing - Some miss that Santiago drew a switch on the schematic showing 34 possibly offered ability to be used with no bright cap.

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by gluke » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:16 pm

I don't like 2n2 in the first stage. To bright to early. 2n2 in the second stage or .022 cap with 2n2+470k does the trick. Not sure what the theroretical difference is but the 2n2+470k sounds more fixed. Using a 2n2 coupling the amp is much more tweakable with the gain pot.

If they did the mod with the absolute minimum amount of parts they would have left the second stage 2n2 in the amp.
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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by snakepit86 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:32 pm

CoffeeTones wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:56 am
Yeah, I don't think 36 was bright and thin as most think. I believe it is a Levi, MK spec that will probably never make it to the internet.
i agree on this, the more i listen to the AFD (i've been listening to this album a looott including the remaster version and the double mono Slash version i posted some years ago here) the more i hear a BIG ASS sounding amp with a raw tone and a mid boost tone.

It is common to attenuate some bass in the recording and remember that Mike Clink said in a circa 2002 interview for the 15th AFD anniversary that he used the Roland SRV 2000 reverb and the dbX 160 compressors to shape the tone and Mike Barbiero and the other guy (sorry i do not remember his name now :peace: ) said that they used the Pulteq racks to boost the mids in the mastering

By the way, there is some Pulteqs pluguins, they are great to do some tweaking and mixing guitars

And finally, the missing piece is that the Mike Clink's mix (before mastering and boosting the mids) of Mr, Brownstone proofs that the #36 mod its a raw less wah like mod

Check this out, i've the .flac version
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX_b1gGL8tg[/youtube]

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by gluke » Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:17 am

So now I have to learn Mr Brownstone as well? Common guys! I'm still struggeling with these other tunes....

I'm no studio guy and have no recording gear so I keep my fokus on how I think the amp sounded. To me having 2n2 and bright caps etc. on the first stage doesn't sound right. Always ends up to cold sounding. Having a plain 2k7/.68/.022 first stage sounds great. Having 2n2 or .022+2n2/470k on the second stage also sounds "right" to me. You get that kinda really chunky Marshall tone from the verse of Nightrain and WTTJ, where the palm mutes just go chunk....

I'm kinda torn on if they actually would have removed and replaced the 2n2 from the board. That's alot of extra work, kinda for nothing, if you are replacing it with a .022 and putting 2n2/470k back in. Also my amp has a nice mustard 2n2 in that position which sounds great! What tech would pull a mustard from the board of a a Marshall? And if Duke's claim that #36 has nothing in common with #34 is correct, then the 2n2/470k combo is just not there. Then it's just 2n2 to pot and shield trick over to next stage tube socket.
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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by gluke » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:00 am

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by CoffeeTones » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:04 am

gluke wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:17 am
So now I have to learn Mr Brownstone as well? Common guys! I'm still struggeling with these other tunes....
That seems to be one of the easier ones to me. You should learn it pretty quick.

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