You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

[basile865]

oh theres no doubt about it, the sound that really happened that night is different from the sounds we've all heard. In fact just listening to the 6550 clips through different speakers that really have more of a flat EQ made a big difference in being able to decifer the differences from 34's to 6550s. Id love to hear the album on an original album.

[bobtec]

[quote="basile865"]So I'm sure everyones read this a hundred times but I figured I'd throw it into the mix:

In 1969, the Experience began using the services of West Coast Organ & Amp Repair in Hollywood, California, to prepare and maintain their equipment.

[Tone Slinger]

Yeah, I first read that in the September '95 Guitar Player Jimi Hendrix cover story. I do believe it.

[basile865]

Haha, I know you're all thinking holy crap this kid wont shut up about this, but I was looking through an old guitar player mag which also mentioned jimi using 6550's beginning on his 69 tour. This was a different article than the one we've all been referring to.

This is from 2006 and its called guitar player icon series "heroes of classic rock"

It goes through all the greats and their gear, and various interview quotes etc. I just was looking in one little box that listed gear and it said "Marshall Super Lead heads [modified with 6550 tubes starting in '69]"

Just thought it was interesting thats all!

[carlygtr56]

yup, if its in GP it must be true

[JimiJames]

yup, if its in GP it must be true

[basile865]

I really think it is a very strong possibility. When I run my plexi up real loud, the bass gets totally flubby and unfocused, and I'm using a 300 watt cab. I think its the EL34s getting beyond their capacity. At lower volumes EL34's are killer, its just annoying when they start to fart out when you really get loud.

[Tone-Freak]

I was at the exp music project in seattle and looked in the back of Hendrix's woodstock marshall and it had EL34's The thing in the Univibes article about the black strat and string gauge has no science to it, the guy just looked at the strings and assumed they were 9's which could be because the low strings were thinner than standard 10's but it is well known Hendrix used 10-38"s which could give the inpression of 9's by just looking. He was only tunned down a half step not a whole step that some one mentioned. If you play along with the songs on the album you will see its a half step. Also he had a octiva in the chain which could effect the sound even when off. Also the middle of 3 amps was the only one miked and when you chain marshalls they sound different so any experement would require this exact set up. Finnaly the recording was remixed in a studio for the album and we all know how creative they were in mixing Hendrix;s recordings. If 6550's were put into the amps they could have been in Billy Cox's bass rigs. But again I have seen the inside of one of the woodstock amps and it had EL34's

[carlygtr56]

When the examined the black Strat, which still had the strings on it, it was Fender 10-38 with a 9 on the high E

http://www.univibes.com/BlackStrat.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


BOG mostly sits between E-flat and D

[basile865]

haha yeah I like that article. The guy goes "it has a maple fretboard. Apparently the fretboard has an effect on the sound." So he doesnt know anything.

Then later he goes "it has what I would call a medium action" How can you judge the action if you dont know anything to begin with? haha

Its so annoying somebody with no knowledge had access to a guitar of that importance. So many questions unanswered.

Yeah he's definitely down like a whole step on the BOG album. Thats how Im always tuned but with a standard set of ernie ball 11's.

The room was really important on his sound, it really helps thicken the tone. If you get a chance put a mic up on the cab and record, then do another with a mic up on the cab and another one about 5-10 feet back and angled up some. Dial in a nice blend of using two mics like that: Sounds a lot better IMO.

Honestly at the end of the day, Im just trying to get rid of the FLUB uncontrolled farty low end when Im playing loud. If 6550's have good tone but make it tighter percussive and focused, then its something worth looking at.

[Tone-Freak]

I tune my guitar to E flat and am perfect for Machine Gun and them changes so its a half not a whole at least that is the way it is on vlynyl which is the way it was orgionally released i have not tried a Cd but will now. If he was tuned down a half on some and a whole on others the bass would have a hard time doing any open stings unless he changed basses. Also Hendrix looks to use only the black strat so I doubt he is tuning for different songs in fact you can watch the video and see him setting pedals and amps between songs but not tunnng up and down:)

[carlygtr56]

It doesnt really take a rocket scientist to observe if a guitar has a medium action. That UV article was pretty informative,much more so than the GP article with the fool who made numerous false claims that is taken as fact by most net twits.

BOG sits between Eflat and D

It was 4 shows, remember. The tuning shifted thuout slightly.

[Tone Slinger]

Exactly, the tuning 'shifted'. Hendrix, was tuned it seemed, closer to a whole than a half step down. Add to that the fact that the reversed headstock with the wound strings having more length, which made the 'song strings' not the 'solo strings' go out of tune more, and you got one hell of a tuning problem. I hear the tuning being off on nearly all of the BOG stuff. BUT, it was still some of the all time best stuff.

Still, Regardless of substantiated claims for and against, I have never heard a el 34 equipped Marshall sound like Hendrix's 69-70 era marshalls. I used to think in my more 'formative' yrs that maybe it was Hendrixs change from the rosewood boards to the maple ones that affected this OBVIOUS change in his sound. I wasnt hearing the warm brown and furriness of the '68 stuff (I had the Ottawa boot WAY back), but at the same time, I was hearing a very clear,clean and percussive gain (the '69 LA Forum for ex. ) I think that, although the 69 and 70 stuff all had similar tone ,that, due to Fuzz faces obvious decline in component selection, the summer to sept. 70 stuff didnt sound quite as good.

Everyone has opinions, but a el 34 used in a cranked Marshall sounds like Blackmore, or earlier, mainly '68 era Hendrix, like the 'Jim Morrison' cub boot. The obvious change was in the out put tubes. I mean whether one goes by the process of elimination, or they listen to a amp tech who supposidly did the mod, the proof to me is in the sound/ears.

[basile865]

"It doesnt really take a rocket scientist to observe if a guitar has a medium action. That UV article was pretty informative,much more so than the GP article with the fool who made numerous false claims that is taken as fact by most net twits."

Wow.

Of course the UV article was pretty informative, the man was talking about what he saw on the black strat. But, if you say "apparently" fretboard wood has an effect on tone, as if you were told that fact 2 minutes before writing the article, you obviously don't have much guitar knowledge. I'm not going to trust someone who then says, oh its about medium action. Medium action could mean a lot of things to a lot of different people. Yes I am grateful as hell for that article to get a slight glimpse/idea about the guitar, but the man was a writer, not a guitarist.

And as far as the GP article, you've probably never read it, if you have you'd know its 2 pages of quotes from interviews with hendrix. No Im not saying he said he used 6550's, that was in a separate box of the article, but as far as being informative the rest of the whole article is straight from hendrix's mouth.

I'd love to respond to the "net twit" comment carly, but I wont because I like speaking with the down to earth, knowledgable people on this forum, unlike yourself. I really don't care that you've owned 5 of every boutique pedal ever made to sound like hendrix, you probably use an attenuator or dont go past 5 on the volume knob in your studio when youre doing hendrix covers.

EL34's most definately are less controlled in the lower frequencies than 6550's are, and if you play loud like he did, chances are you'd probably want a tube that can stay tighter louder as well. I guess the interview with the guitar tech who said he installed 6550's, and then the GP article which said the same, just made it up because they have a secret alliance with 6550 tube producers and they get a cut of all sales to the 5 people on metro amp who would give a damn about that.

[basile865]

ya know what guys? Look what this article has turned into. A bunch of guys arguing about nothing. What gauge was hendrix using, was his tuning a half step or a whole step down, was it this tube that tube?

Follow your hands and ears and nothing else.

I am not trying to do hendrix covers or be the next jimi hendrix. My amp is simply out of control in the bass frequencies at high volume, even with the bass knob rolled back to like 2. I am going to try the 6550 tube and see what happens.

I also simply saw that GP article and thought hey, weird, here we have a separate source mentioning those tubes, maybe the guys on the forum would find it interesting. Not call people net twits and then argue about completely un-important things like was it a 9 or a 10 high E, tuning etc.

I make my own music, I just want to shape my tone to a cleaner, higher headroom, tighter tone like that on who knows.

I just tried to throw some food for thought out there and it turned into a big pile of shit because everyone has to argue like a complete idiot. I'm done