Jimi Hendrix' Gear and Mods at West Coast Organ and Amp

[daveweyer]

It's not like there's no fuzz, it's just coming from several stages instead of one.
If you have an old FF, just substitute a 10K pot for the collector resistor on the second transistor, and tie your output to the wiper of the pot. Then see what happens to the input stage of your amp when you start moving the wiper from one end to the other. Suddenly the gain goes through the roof.
Just try different settings to get all the howling sustain you need.
It's a simple experiment which will show at least the general direction we tried to go with the FF pedals.

That was a great video of Jimi at his howling best. Thank you for posting the link. Did you like the sound of the Fenders? I thought they left a great deal to be desired in terms of overall guitar tone and feel. The amps actually sounded pretty good with Marshall bottoms.

[Tone seaker]

Dave would you consider building a small amount of the special Fuzz's to sell to us

[Xplorer]

cool idea, even if i'm tweaking a fuzz clone this way right now for fun

[daveweyer]

We've got our beta tester in Xplorer. Maybe we can get reports about how simple FF changes affect the tone and response, and when it gets perfected we can have a listen over an MP3 file, get everyone to chime in about their perceptions.
It'd be interesting just to see how much of Jimi's overdrive tones were actually just listener generated, so to speak.

I've mentioned this before, but Jimi had a 1966 Guild Quantum amp, and had it modified so he could use the preamp section to drive another amp, making the pair into a totally tube type fuzz tone.
I repaired the amp a while back, and the input/output jacks were still on the back, labeled with Dymo-Tape.
He could use either the preamp section or the power amp section independently. It even had the oval West Coast Organ and Amplifier Service sticker still stuck to the chassis. Jimi brought it in for repair in 1968 and still wanted it to be in working condition, so he must have used it on later gigs as well.
It was the equivalent of a "Tube Screamer" when he used the amp to overdrive a Marshall or Fender. So I guess Jimi invented the Tube Screamer...........
It was used on some of his early recordings, but proved impractical for stage use. Do any of you bright Jimi students know which tunes it was used on, or which tunes don't quite sound like the Fuzzface?

There exists at least one picture of the amp on stage, but I haven't seen it recently. Anybody else seen it?

[Xplorer]

sure, will beta test it
i need to verify the fuzz i did last night, and wait for the 2n525 to arrive and i'll have a nice base. it's on a pcb i've made for another project. for now the transistors are those used in the joe bonamassa fuzz face, the copper one. very low hfe, like 30 - 50.

It was used on some of his early recordings, but proved impractical for stage use. Do any of you bright Jimi students know which tunes it was used on, or which tunes don't quite sound like the Fuzzface?

well, it says 1965, so unless the date is wrong, it couldn't be the Guild amp, since you said 1966. But i find this one a killer tone from Jimi, different from the sounds we're used to hear . magnificent solo :

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyhLjCwJFGA[/youtube]

youtube stuff appearing on the forum doesn't work for me so here it is again :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyhLjCwJFGA

[daveweyer]

That tone is much more Neil Young.
If you want to hear just the fuzz with no shared amp distortion check out the Hendrix Live Jazz Jam on youtube. Supposedly done in Steve Stills' basement in '68, around the time I started working for him. Pretty gritty and crude.

[Tenderfoot]

I'm going to have to try those mods on my Roger Mayer Axis Fuzz. This could eliminate me having to use a tube screamer behind it for more sustain!

[stalkertwo]

Scuse me please tell me what mean fuzz on 2. I mean on the fuzz face somebody saud fuzz 2 and gain 10 thank you.

[Xplorer]

Alright ! it's an honor for me, here is the Hendrix Fuzz from Dave Weyer.
there are a few differences that i'll change later, ( very low 40 hfe russian germanium transistors, input and output caps ) but it's basicaly using the mod Dave was talking about. this is the layout i've used, with some help from Dave. it's probably a good base, good enough to show how this fuzz sounds, with the fuzz gain on ZERO !!! volume at max.

the layout :

http://imgur.com/a/8a2wO

a little clip ( will do some others another time ) . Only in the end of the clip , i crank the fuzz control, and you can hear how wild it is, not needed. ( but if you like Monterey's crackling amp tone, you get it ) .
strat > Hendrix fuzz > Voodoo vibe > JTM 45/100 ( volume at about 7 )
notice that it isn't tested in the real conditions, with a real cab ... since i played in my bedroom, it's going through a transducer, soundcard, then cubase. i know it's a shame but it's probably good enough for now.

https://soundcloud.com/xplorer80/141120-hendrix-fuzz

[Tenderfoot]

I can definitely hear it getting there!

[daveweyer]

Well Explorer has built an approximate replica of the West Coast fuzz mod, at least good enough to demonstrate the whole point about Jimi's attempt to get more sustain and still keep some note clarity.
If Xplorer is willing to keep fussing with it, we might be able to really get it dialed in.

Under the madness of all this there is a lesson about the mods Jimi's techs were trying out, in order to get him where he was trying to go. It seems to me you should be able to get a pretty good approximation by just getting one of Roger Mayer's fuzz units.
If that doesn't give the output gain needed, you can always put a 20K pot on the collector of Q2 just like Xplorer did, and take the output from the wiper.
If you add the 50K input pot, you have a lot of different adjustments to get just the right amount of each type distortion, and you can still use the fuzz control besides.
You really have to dial these things in, and when you have more controls, it's a lot easier, and fun besides.

Remember, when you listen to Jimi's performances you may be hearing a number of different mods and amp mods, depending on Jimi's mood when he picked out a pedal to use. Sometimes you heard a Mayer, sometimes you heard a West Coast, and sometimes you may have heard some other tech's idea of what it should be.

Whenever you test though, make sure you have tons of amp power pumping, much of the sustain was physical feedback into the guitar body, strings, pickups, and Jimi's body. This is especially true for things like Star Spangled Banner.
Output tube/transformer/speaker distortion was really the main sound generator in Jimi's world, especially at high volume. That's why I spent so much time trying to get his amps louder.

Ultimately, we were headed toward a split band fuzz, and even toward split band amps. I had made a prototype at West Coast along with a tube chorusing unit, and we had hoped to put those into his rig at some point.
Jimi was game for anything which could either follow or lead his vision.

[Tone seaker]

Alright ! it's an honor for me, here is the Hendrix Fuzz from Dave Weyer.
there are a few differences that i'll change later, ( very low 40 hfe russian germanium transistors, input and output caps ) but it's basicaly using the mod Dave was talking about. this is the layout i've used, with some help from Dave. it's probably a good base, good enough to show how this fuzz sounds, with the fuzz gain on ZERO !!! volume at max.

the layout :

http://imgur.com/a/8a2wO

a little clip ( will do some others another time ) . Only in the end of the clip , i crank the fuzz control, and you can hear how wild it is, not needed. ( but if you like Monterey's crackling amp tone, you get it ) .
strat > Hendrix fuzz > Voodoo vibe > JTM 45/100 ( volume at about 7 )
notice that it isn't tested in the real conditions, with a real cab ... since i played in my bedroom, it's going through a transducer, soundcard, then cubase. i know it's a shame but it's probably good enough for now.

https://soundcloud.com/xplorer80/141120-hendrix-fuzz

How do I get one

[Xplorer]

Well Explorer has built an approximate replica of the West Coast fuzz mod, at least good enough to demonstrate the whole point about Jimi's attempt to get more sustain and still keep some note clarity.
If Xplorer is willing to keep fussing with it, we might be able to really get it dialed in.

off course i am !

from what you said previously, the next change would be to use some 4,7 uf in the input, and a 0,047 in the output.
also some 2n525 transistors instead of these.

And maybe, would you lead all this into some more interesting experimentations reproductions like this first one ?

off course i'd like to get a chance to play my amp in some better conditions, just not yet. to hear these howling, sustain, feedbacks ...
About this : do you think that some modern kt66 could handle 560 volts, thanks to the lower screen voltage / 2k2 10w résistors ? or should i rather try some 6550 ?

oh, and the wah works as you'd expect.

Tone seaker, it's easy to build, go for it ! , and the previous comments from tenderfoot help too.

[matriarch]

That clip goes from using a fuzz's volume to overdrive an amp, a weak sound, IMO. Good maybe for rhythm .....to a fuzzy distorted mess.

I'll stick w/ my own ears- SSB at 2:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtOmXM0UqNQ

Axis-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI_C5XeBH3o

[Xplorer]

carlygtr ? how do you explain that your clips don't sound like Hendrix tone ? A/B Hendrix and you.

what i did is a first attempt quickly made, no problem getting more power and getting it better later.